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An Interview with Tony Hendra (Part Two)

An Interview with Tony Hendra (Part One)

Interviewer: Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Numbering: Issue 12.A, Idea: Outliers & Outsiders (Part Eight)

Place of Publication: Langley, British Columbia, Canada

Title: In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Web Domain: http://www.in-sightjournal.com

Individual Publication Date: December 1, 2016

Issue Publication Date: January 1, 2017

Name of Publisher: In-Sight Publishing

Frequency: Three Times Per Year

Words: 2,298

ISSN 2369-6885

Abstract

An interview with Tony Hendra. He discusses: geographic, cultural, and linguistic background of family; self-definition as a satirist, actor, and writer; Cambridge University Footlights Revue; work with Spitting Image; previous interview with Paul Krassner and reflection on Lenny Bruce; and advancement of free speech in ideas in comedy as well as in popular culture.

Keywords: Actor, Satirist, Tony Hendra, Writer.

An Interview with Tony Hendra: Actor, Satirist, and Writer[1],[2]

*Footnotes in & after the interview, & bibliography & citation style listing after the interview.*

*This interview has been edited for clarity and readability.*

1. In terms of geography, culture, and language, where does your family background reside?

As you can tell from my rather rusty British accent, my providence is the British Isles. My heritage is Celtic. My mother’s maiden name was McGovern. Even though, she pretended she was Scottish. She was from County Latham. My family name is from Cornwall. We’re basically Celtic as a family. I spent the rest of my life in the not terribly remunerative career of satire.

So, that is the other thing that shaped my general outlook on things.

2. You self-define as a satirist, and actor and writer.

I am not an actor. I act when I am asked to act. I was lucky enough to be in one fairly famous movie. That is not my métier. I always wanted to be a writer. I never really wrote in any substantial way, except little skits for a comedy team I was a part of. Until, I arrived for National Lampoon and started to write what I wanted to write.

So, that is part of it, but the other part of it worth thinking about. It is not as true in America as in England, at least in the time I grew up – being Irish meant that you were very much an outsider. It is partly the anti-Catholicism of the English. This is ingrained anti-Catholicism. It is also just the odium that the British have for people they enslaved for 800 years, which seems to me what happens to people that enslave other people.

They hate the people they enslave. It is interesting. That definitely shaped my growing up. I was an outsider at school, mainly because I was Catholic, but I was an outsider to a sufficient extent that when, for example, in England they have this awful system of prefects and captains, and so forth, who are allowed to discipline the other boys.

It is usually at boys’ schools. I was told by my head master in no uncertain terms that I could not be head of school, even though I had a scholarship to Cambridge and belonged to many teams. All of the right things. I could not be head of school because I was a papist. He took great delight in using the word papist.

It gives you a real snapshot of the background that I have.

3. You were part of the Cambridge University Footlights Revue in 1962.

I was, indeed. I joined a couple years before that after seeing a magnificent revue called Beyond the Fringe, which was immensely influential in terms of British comedy and, probably, in terms of British writing too because it dared to open doors nobody dared to open before.

I was at Footlights. During the time that I was there, and immediately before I was there, two of the members had been on the fringe, who were Peter Cook and Jonathan Miller. Miller later became a distinguished director. David Frost preceded all of us. David Frost was in London at this point.

In my own year, I had John Cleese and Graham Chapman of Monty Python. They were two prominent members. That is who I grew up with.

4. When you came into television, more prominently with Spitting Image, when you are having that writing experience, how do you think that set you up for later work?

Spitting Image was more like the middle of my career. I am so ancient.

(Laugh)

(Laugh)

It was a unique show. It used puppet sized puppets made of foam. The puppets were representations of public figures. It was in the mid-80s, when we developed the show. We had caricatures of everybody from Maggie Thatcher to Ronald Reagan to whoever was the leader of Russia at the time.

There were several in a row. All kinds of celebrities in every walk of life including the Pope, etc. We made the puppets do outrageous things. It was the type of writing that no one had done before because only television made this possible. Only puppets could do a lot of the things that an actor could not have done. It was a marvelous vehicle for satire.

Unfortunately, I never succeeded in getting to export it to the States, but it was an enormous hit in England and ran for about 10 years.

5. In a previous interview with Paul Krassner, we talked about his being a child prodigy for violin. At one point, Lenny Bruce approached him. He said Krassner should do comedy. He took the advice.

(Laugh)

(Laugh)

After listening to him play the violin?

(Laugh)

(Laugh)

He was standing on one leg telling jokes, playing the violin, I think. Something like that. Who were some individuals that set you on a course for writing, comedy, satire, and so on?

There were several. The most important and earliest I had was a show in England. A radio show called Goon Show. The Goon Show was three guys: Spike Milligan, Harry Secombe, and Peter Sellers. It was where Peter Sellers got his start. It was an extraordinary Dadaist approach to radio in which complete non sequiturs and insane scenes would be conjured up by sound effects and the magic of radio.

It was immensely popular in England around the turn of the 50s. Its high point was probably 52, 53, and 54, when I was growing up. I was an impressionable young man. That comedy had a strong strain, even though it was a few years after World War II. They had a strong strain of anti-militarism. It was making fun of the military. It was probably because they had all fought in the war.

One sketch, I remember vividly, is a character named Major Bloodnok was an extremely pompous, jingoistic soldier. He was barking commands and constantly horning at everything. Major Bloodnok had this wonderful plan of constructing a cardboard replica of England and floating it into the English Channel to fool English bombers.

They would play it out. You would hear rustling of cardboard. They would float the replica down the English Channel and then bomb it. You would have wet cardboard floating. That sort of humor, which was very satirical in its thrust, was also very wild and surrealist.

I loved that as with most of my generation, I think. Other influences were rather odder. My mentor, as a young adolescent, was a Benedictine monk. I wrote a book called Father Joe. A wonderful, funny and contemplative monk on the Isle of Wight in England. In rather odd circumstances, I came under his tutelage.

He was wonderfully funny too. He was wonderfully irreverent. I found, even though I loved his spirituality most of all, his irreverence very shocking at the outset. Later, I realized it was very spiritual in its own way. In that, he was always testing his own faith and the faith of others.

As he would say, “The beginning and end of faith is doubt. Not certainty. Those who have certainty are usually very dangerous.” That was an important influence. Many years later after I became a satirist. He asked me to explain satire in a modern context. I tried to explain it. It wasn’t easy.

He said something fascinating at the end of it. He said, “Tony dear, what I think a contemplative monk does and a satirist does are very much the same thing. We see the evil in the world around us and we go about trying to do something about it.”

When you dig down into it, it is an interesting insight into why satirists do what they do, and why some satirists are quite religious. As I was, or as Evelyn Waugh was, it is a sense that the moral universe is askew. You don’t have that sense. Unless, you have some deep sense of what is and isn’t moral.

So for that, Joe was an influence on all parts of my life, including wanting to become a writer.

6. What do you think was the importance of Lenny Bruce, George Carlin, Richard Pryor, and Billy Connolly to the advancement of free speech in ideas in comedy as well as in popular culture?

I wrote a book called Going Too Far. It was a history written after finishing with Spitting Image, and National Lampoon. It is an examination of post-war anti-establishment humor and attire in the States from 1965 until the mid-80s, when it more or less disappeared.

Lenny, and I call him Lenny, even though everyone calls him Lenny including those who never met him, and I, in fact, opened for him in New York in a club called the Café au Go Go. Lenny was a kind of failure. He was the one who showed us how much work had to be done, and where the pressure points came from. He sacrificed his career on doing that.

One of the ironical things to his downfall was that, although it was predicated on obscenity, it was not obscenity that caused Lenny’s downfall, but that he was extremely rude about the Catholic Church. He wasn’t Catholic. His actual downfall occurred after the show, which I opened for him in New York. Where he was busted twice by the NYPD during a 2-week booking, the DEA of Manhattan was a guy called Frank Hogan, who was an avowedly devout Catholic.

Obviously, he did not have a lot of charity about comedians. He pursued Lenny into privation and probably death. He did it because he had said things about the sacred, which he couldn’t be allowed to get away with. I thought that was a very significant of my growing up and of my entire generation.

Certainly, Lenny’s sacrifice, if you want to call it that, was so complete that it did ultimately open doors because people followed where he’d led. George Carlin, in particular, who I had a close friendship with, was one of those who obviously took it head on when he went through his transition from television comic to a real satirical and comedic spokesman with his most famous routine, Seven Dirty Words, which was about television censorship.

It was about the most empowered and tyrannical media in the nation deciding what you could and could not say. That was important both to the culture at large and to exposing how much there still had to be done. That routine of George’s is the only comedic routine that know of that has inspired a major Supreme Court decision, the Pacific case.

In which the court ruled against a radio station, the WBAI, who went against the routine, a minister from the South, of course, complained bitterly that he had to listen to it in his radio with his child in the front seat. The ministers always seem to be travelling and listening.

That’s how the Pacifica decision came about, and the Pacifica decision ruled against WBAI. It was a majority decision. The Supreme Court has, to this day, to undo Pacifica decision. It remains a vast lacuna on freedom of speech. Those two, themselves, did specific things, which opened up the culture at large to a great deal more freedom of speech than it thought it enjoyed before that.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Actor, Satirist, and Writer

[2] St. Albans School; Cambridge University.

Appendix II: Citation Style Listing

American Medical Association (AMA): Jacobsen S. An Interview with Tony Hendra (Part One) [Online].December 2016; 12(A). Available from: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-tony-hendra-part-one.

American Psychological Association (APA, 6th Edition, 2010): Jacobsen, S.D. (2016, December 1). An Interview with Tony Hendra (Part One)Retrieved from http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-tony-hendra-part-one.

Brazilian National Standards (ABNT): JACOBSEN, S. An Interview with Tony Hendra (Part One). In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 12.A, December. 2016. <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-tony-hendra-part-one>.

Chicago/Turabian, Author-Date (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott. 2016. “An Interview with Tony Hendra (Part One).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 12.A. http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-tony-hendra-part-one.

Chicago/Turabian, Humanities (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott “An Interview with Tony Hendra (Part One).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 12.A (December 2016). http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-tony-hendra-part-one.

Harvard: Jacobsen, S. 2016, ‘An Interview with Tony Hendra (Part One)In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 12.A. Available from: <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-tony-hendra-part-one>.

Harvard, Australian: Jacobsen, S. 2016, ‘An Interview with Tony Hendra (Part One)In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 12.A., http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-tony-hendra-part-one.

Modern Language Association (MLA, 7th Edition, 2009): Scott D. Jacobsen. “An Interview with Tony Hendra (Part One).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 12.A (2016):December. 2016. Web. <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-tony-hendra-part-one>.

Vancouver/ICMJE: Jacobsen S. An Interview with Tony Hendra (Part One) [Internet]. (2016, December; 12(A). Available from: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-tony-hendra-part-one.

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Based on a work at www.in-sightjournal.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen, and In-Sight Publishing and In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 2012-2017. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen, and In-Sight Publishing and In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal with appropriate and specific direction to the original content.  All interviewees co-copyright their interview material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

An Interview with Associate Professor David Garneau

Interviewer: Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Numbering: Issue 12.A, Idea: Outliers & Outsiders (Part Eight)

Place of Publication: Langley, British Columbia, Canada

Title: In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Web Domain: http://www.in-sightjournal.com

Individual Publication Date: November 22, 2016

Issue Publication Date: January 1, 2017

Name of Publisher: In-Sight Publishing

Frequency: Three Times Per Year

Words: 2,831

ISSN 2369-6885

professor-david-garneau-jpg

Abstract

An interview with Associate Professor David Garneau. He discusses: geographic, cultural, and linguistic personal and familial background; differentiation of critical writing, curation, drawing, and painting; most personal fulfillment from a practice; contemporary Aboriginal identity, history, masculinity, and nature and topics of most interest within them; main conversations around contemporary Aboriginal identity; best definition of a healthy masculinity in the modern world, especially in Canada; meaning of national representation of painting collections in distinguished places; the process for the origination, development, and presentation of thematic curations; contents and intended messages of talks around the world; memorable and enjoyable moments with students and faculty; advice for young gifted artists; recommendations on mastering individual expression and technique for art; responsibilities with public recognition; responsibility to the arts community; most emotionally ‘taxing’ part of artistic work; and feelings and thoughts in conclusion.

Keywords: David Garneau, Fine Arts, and The University of Regina.

An Interview with Associate Professor David Garneau: Associate Professor, Faculty of Fine Arts in the Visual Arts Department, The University of Regina[1],[2],[3]

*Footnotes in and after the interview, & bibliography & citation style listing after the interview.*

1. In terms of geography, culture, and language, where does your personal and familial background reside?[4]

I live with my family in Treaty Four Territory, on the Northern Great Plains of Turtle Island. We live in Regina, the capital of Saskatchewan, Canada. It is a small city (221,407) in a large (651,036 km²) province but a relatively small population (1.13 million). I was born in Treaty Six Territory, Edmonton, Alberta. My mother is from Vancouver and my father’s family were among the original Métis settlers, in 1871, of Edmonton; there is a Garneau district named for them—for Laurent and Eleanor Garneau, my great, great grandparents. I am an English speaking Métis.

2. Your work emphasizes critical writing, curation, drawing, and painting. What differentiates each practice?

I have always seen these as intertwined and complimentary practices. I am fortunate to have a generous studio/office at the University of Regina. The space allows me to work on research, writing, meeting with students and colleagues, and paint all in one location. I can quickly turn from one activity to another without losing much time. The space allows me to be more productive and yet also intuitive in my work methods. I can shift from one activity to another as suits my thoughts.

More than 25 years ago, a journalist wrote a profile titled “The Myriad Careers of David Garneau.” It seemed absurd at the time; I did not think much was getting done, in multiple directions. I now see that each direction is connected and necessarily part of a larger project.

Writing is the most difficult because I try to write somewhere between an academic position and as an artist. I am not an academic writer. I write for occasions and need; to specific audiences. I am analytical by nature but it is a  logic continuously disturbed by intuition and relationships with people otherwise composed. Art, for me, is form of problem solving and making. While making art, I feel in connection with multiple art histories, theories, and artists. It is a space of more play than I allow in writing. However, much of my art concerns Métis folks, so I often feel more responsible than playful in much of that work. While some of Métis work has a playful and provocative function, much of it fueled by a sense of responsibility to community.

3. What practice brings the most personal fulfillment for you?

They are interconnected and often happen at the same time. While painting I am thinking about curation and writing. While writing, I wish I were painting. They are all fulfilling. I take inordinate pleasure in a beautiful sentence or passage of paint. I get deep enjoyment from coaching students through their projects. While most of my fun in at my computer and easel, I increasingly enjoy that some of my work is well received, that it impacts people beyond myself.

4. You engage in subject matter such as contemporary Aboriginal identity, history, masculinity, and nature. What topics within each subject matter most interests you? Why?

My interests oscillate. I am interested in patterns that echo throughout all these areas. I am interested in examining the structure of things and relationships. I am perhaps most interested in how hierarchies, rhetoric, belief, and power function similarly in the construction of identity, the maintenance of culture, the formation of gender, and the construction and perception of nature. I am intrigued how metaphysical claims and experiences disrupt, but also, inform materialist thinking and structures; particularly how marginalized persons and communities use revealed truth to resist the materialist, logocentric, and exploitative strategies of dominant classes.

5. In general, what seem like the main conversations, academic and public, around contemporary Aboriginal identity?

There is a complex and deep division between actual (and perceived) academics and non-academic Indigenous people. The divide is both a class difference and a difference in world-view. Those who maintain and live the, for example, Cree worldview, are at foundational odds with academic ways of knowing and being. And professors who try to maintain, for example, a Cree worldview face enormous stress to be different and to exploit their knowledge and people. I am interested in modes particularly art and writing that attempts to bridge this gap, create true collaborations, or at least reveal the complexity of Indigenous identity beyond capture.

6. What best defines a healthy masculinity in the modern world, especially throughout Canada?

Introspection; self-conscious discussion among men and boys, and then with women. I feel the need for this work most profoundly, but have not been able to engage the task beyond the personal in effective ways.  I have learned and unlearned and troubled masculinity in working partnerships with female curators and artists; in relation with my partner, Sylvia Ziemann (also an artist); with my children; my early work in daycare, and teaching in majority female settings—and it might not be a masculinity treasured by many other sorts of men. I don’t know.

7. You have painting collections inthe Canadian Museum of Civilization, The Canadian Parliament, Indian and Inuit Art Centre, the Glenbow Museum, the Mackenzie Art Gallery and many other public and private collections.”[5] This is a distinguished list of places. What does this national representation mean to you?

I am honoured to have paintings in these places; but more than an honour, it is strategic. Having contemporary Indigenous art in public collections, having political Indigenous work in collections that have curatorial programs ensures that Indigenous being and concerns will be part of that region’s patrimony and future discourse. I once asked Alex Janvier why he let his paintings be collected by a oil company that was ravaging his territory. He said “They don’t know what they have.” He saw his works as evidence: his presence in their space, but also, many of those paintings are maps of the Cold Lake region. They are a form of land claim. At base, my goal is to have Métis presence in public spaces, and to show that we are contemporary people. But more than simply occupy these spaces with aesthetic content, I also want to disturb the assumptions that have regulated these places, collections, and the imaginaries that enable them and their multiple subjects. Each new thing brought into the museum creates a subtle disturbance in the collection. And some things create dramatic disturbances.

8. You have curated more by theme including The End of the World (as we know it)Picture Windows: New AbstractionTranscendent Squares, Sophisticated FolkContested Histories, Making it Like a Man!, Graphic Visions, and TEXTiles.[6] What is the process for the origination, development, and presentation of thematic curations?

Each is different. Lately, I have been working with Indigenous women to co-curate exhibitions in Regina, Sydney, and New York. I appreciate the dialogic nature of these relationships; the give and take; the evolving of ideas, and especially working through our similar ethical and community-minded concerns. My/our usual approach begins with knowing the field, who is making what. Then, doing research to find out what we don’t know that might bear some relation to what we do know. Many of the group shows work in this thematic way. I have also produced many solo or two-person exhibitions that are not. I think of most curation as a form of public discourse in which thinkers in the art medium communicate their ideas of current topics. I like thematic exhibitions because they include and exceed individual projects.

9. You give talks around the world. What tend to be the contents and intended messages of them?

I am an occasional speaker, one who rises to the occasion as best I can. Lately, I have talked about how museum collection mandates have lead to the production of hoards which distort contemporary practices; how museums and art galleries are designed to disable; how we might Indigenize these spaces, not for reasons of fairness and equal representation but because Indigenous ways of being and knowing are more humane. I have also talked about how Indigenous identity is based on migration rather than static location; I critique decolonial theory as primarily designed for truly post-colonial territories and to improve the lives of Settler peoples, and promote notions of non-colonial practice which focus on Indigenous ways of being and knowing, rather than focus on the deconstruction of European ways. I am also interested in deep readings of art works, in showing how contemporary Indigenous create haptic and intellectual objects, how they shape ideas and identities through non-propositional, non-verbal means.

10. You taught Drawing, Graduate Theory, and Painting courses. For five years, at Alberta College of Art and Design, you were a sessional instructor in the humanities and studio art. You are an associate professor at The University of Regina. What were, and have been, some of the most memorable and enjoyable moments with students and faculty?

Teaching is at the center of my practice. I am continuously humbled by new minds and talents. I never take this job for granted. I don’t reduce it to a job in the usual sense. While I love lecturing to large groups, sharing ideas, I especially like working one-to-one, or in small studio groups, helping students see and develop their practice. I enjoy the technical aspects of painting and drawing, but it is helping students understand their work in a larger sense—within the artworlds, as a life-long trajectory, in relation to ideas in other fields, in relation to community—that I find the most engaging.

11. Any advice for young gifted artists?

As early as you can, commit to a practice and project that can sustain and exceed you. That is, discover a practice or medium that you can master but that will offer life-long challenges. This focus and depth will sustain you despite vagarities of the market or intellectual climate. Focus on a project that is more than your internal processes, that includes a deep engagement in the world. Nurture and be nurtured by mentors, colleagues, and community. Travel. Take care of business.

12. Any recommendations on mastering individual expression and technique for art?

No. I’m not much into individual expression.

13. You have moderate exposure in the media.[7],[8] What responsibilities come with this public recognition?

Very moderate exposure. I’m not keen on it unless it is in support of larger issues. For example, my performance work—especially the Louis Riel/John A. Macdonald works—is generally in public, non-art world settings. I want to reach a more general public, and for that media exposure is central, so I welcome it in those cases. I am less interested in media that wants to focus on my work as autobiography.

14. What about to the arts community?

I spent the 90s helping to build up the Calgary arts scene, primarily through critical writing. I co-founded Artichoke and Cameo magazines, and wrote locally and nationally about the Alberta scene. For the past 15 years, I have focused on contemporary Indigenous art and widened my scope to include the rest of Canada and into Australia. I see public thinking about Indigenous art as a primary responsibility.

15. What seems like the most emotionally ‘taxing’ part of artistic work for you?

It is easy to relax into a trope that has decreasing currency because it is more pleasurable. I’d rather paint conventional still life and landscape painting. They have their own challenges but they don’t have much engagement beyond pleasure. Keep up with current thinking and making is heard work. Being somewhat in the public eye—small public, smiling eyes (usually)—you worry about making a mistake, saying an irresponsible thing. I’m an introvert. I prefer being alone in the studio, or one-on-one. Public speaking, being in public as a known person, is draining. However, if I am in Indigenous or art or idea—and especially Indigenous, art, and idea company!—I am in bliss. I am energized by good company.

16. Any feelings or thoughts in conclusion?

As above, I am uncomfortable talking about myself. I prefer if readers were to look up my art and essays.

Thank you for your time, Professor Garneau.

Bibliography

  1. CBC News Ottawa. (2016, May 4). Carmen Papalia, blind artist, says museums need to be more accessible. Retrieved from http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/art-accessible-carmen-papalia-1.3562614.
  2. Latimer, K. (2016, May 11). Artist says Regina’s $10K for Taylor Field tribute at Mosaic Stadium not enough. Retrieved from http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/taylor-field-tribute-not-enough-money-mosaic-stadium-1.3575426.
  3. The University of Regina. (2016). David Garneau Online Portfolio. Retrieved from http://uregina.ca/~garneaud/.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Associate Professor, Faculty of Fine Arts in the Visual Arts Department, The University of Regina.

[2] B.F.A. (Distinction, 1989), Painting and Drawing, University of Calgary; M.A. (1993), English Literature, University of Calgary.

[3] Photograph courtesy of Professor David Garneau.

[4] David Garneau (2016) states:

David Garneau‘s work focuses on painting, drawing, curation and critical writing. He often engages issues of nature, history, masculinity and contemporary Aboriginal identity. His paintings are in the collections of the Canadian Museum of Civilization, The Canadian Parliament, Indian and Inuit Art Centre, the Glenbow Museum, the Mackenzie Art Gallery and many other public and private collections. He curated several large group exhibitions: The End of the World (as we know it)Picture Windows: New AbstractionTranscendent SquaresSophisticated FolkContested HistoriesMaking it Like a Man! and Graphic Visions and TEXTiles.

He has recently given talks in Melbourne, Adelaide, New York, San Diego, Sacramento, and key note lectures in Sydney, Toronto, Edmonton and Sault Ste Marie. Garneau is currently working on curatorial and writing projects featuring contemporary Aboriginal art exchanges between Canada and Australia. His teaching responsibilities include Painting, Drawing and Graduate Theory courses. Before joining the faculty at the U of R, he spent five years as a sessional instructor in humanities and studio art at the Alberta College of Art and Design.

The University of Regina. (2016). David Garneau. Retrieved from http://www.uregina.ca/mediaartperformance/faculty-staff/faculty/f-garneau-david.html.

[5] Ibid.

[6] Ibid.

[7] CBC News Ottawa. (2016, May 4). Carmen Papalia, blind artist, says museums need to be more accessible. Retrieved from http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/art-accessible-carmen-papalia-1.3562614.

[8] Latimer, K. (2016, May 11). Artist says Regina’s $10K for Taylor Field tribute at Mosaic Stadium not enough. Retrieved from http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/taylor-field-tribute-not-enough-money-mosaic-stadium-1.3575426.

Appendix II: Citation Style Listing

American Medical Association (AMA): Jacobsen S. An Interview with Associate Professor David Garneau [Online].November 2016; 12(A). Available from: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-associate-professor-david-garneau.

American Psychological Association (APA, 6th Edition, 2010): Jacobsen, S.D. (2016, November 22). An Interview with Associate Professor David GarneauRetrieved from http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-associate-professor-david-garneau.

Brazilian National Standards (ABNT): JACOBSEN, S. An Interview with Associate Professor David Garneau. In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 12.A, November. 2016. <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-associate-professor-david-garneau>.

Chicago/Turabian, Author-Date (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott. 2016. “An Interview with Associate Professor David Garneau.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 12.A. http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-associate-professor-david-garneau.

Chicago/Turabian, Humanities (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott “An Interview with Associate Professor David Garneau.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 12.A (November 2016). http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-associate-professor-david-garneau.

Harvard: Jacobsen, S. 2016, ‘An Interview with Dr. Harriet Hall, M.D.In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 12.A. Available from: <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-associate-professor-david-garneau>.

Harvard, Australian: Jacobsen, S. 2016, ‘An Interview with Associate Professor David GarneauIn-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 12.A., http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-associate-professor-david-garneau.

Modern Language Association (MLA, 7th Edition, 2009): Scott D. Jacobsen. “An Interview with Associate Professor David Garneau.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 12.A (2016):November. 2016. Web. <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-associate-professor-david-garneau>.

Vancouver/ICMJE: Jacobsen S. An Interview with Associate Professor David Garneau [Internet]. (2016, November; 12(A). Available from: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-associate-professor-david-garneau.

License and Copyright

License

In-Sight Publishing and In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.
Based on a work at www.in-sightjournal.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen, and In-Sight Publishing and In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 2012-2017. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen, and In-Sight Publishing and In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal with appropriate and specific direction to the original content.  All interviewees co-copyright their interview material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

An Interview with Dr. Harriet Hall, M.D.

Interviewer: Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Numbering: Issue 12.A, Idea: Outliers & Outsiders (Part Eight)

Place of Publication: Langley, British Columbia, Canada

Title: In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Web Domain: http://www.in-sightjournal.com

Individual Publication Date: November 15, 2016

Issue Publication Date: January 1, 2017

Name of Publisher: In-Sight Publishing

Frequency: Three Times Per Year

Words: 2,044

ISSN 2369-6885

Abstract

An interview with Dr. Harriet Hall, M.D. She discusses: a short preface before the interview; geographic, cultural, and linguistic personal and familial background; influence on background; original interests in medicine, science, and skepticism/critical thinking; some benign consequences of skepticism’s absence; some historical and big negative consequences seen from its absence; some personal favorites of egregious examples of alternative medicine without efficacy; some individuals that promote pseudoscience, bad science, and non-science as medicine in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary; failure of prayer in studies and similar examples and outcomes; and the best tools to fight against fallacious beliefs and claims, especially in medicine.

Keywords: Committee for Skeptical Inquiry, Harriett Hall, science-based medicine.

An Interview with Dr. Harriet Hall, M.D.: Elected Fellow (2010), Committee for Skeptical Inquiry[1],[2],[3]

*Footnotes in & after the interview, & bibliography & citation style listing after the interview.*

1. To begin the conversation, we need a short preface. Upon receiving the interview request, you mentioned Outliers and Outsiders for the theme of the series. I mentioned some interviewees and sub-themes within this series because it is an exploratory set of interviewees with trends throughout it. You did not self-identify as an outlier or an outsider. What did you mean by that?

I consider myself to be firmly inside the mainstream of science-based medicine. The practitioners of alternative medicine, the cranks, and the quacks are the outsiders. I don’t consider myself an outlier in the sense of someone who differs from other members of a group. I would accept that I am near the top of the bell curve in that I am far more rigorous about scientific standards than the majority of physicians, and I have spent far more time learning about human psychology, research pitfalls, and critical thinking skills.

2. Now, in terms of geography, culture, and language, where does your personal and familial background reside?

I don’t think that sort of information is very meaningful. What matters is whether my thinking is rational and evidence-based, not what factors in my background might have influenced me to think that way. But I’ll oblige. I grew up in Seattle, Washington in a WASP culture, speaking English. My father was a professor of engineering and my mother was a housewife. I learned to speak fluent Spanish and I lived in Spain for seven years, which gave me insight into other cultures.

3. How did this seem to influence development?

I think what most influenced my development was the opportunity to get a good education and read a lot of books. From a young age, I believed I could learn to do anything and could choose any occupation; although I did have to deal with a certain amount of prejudice against women.

4. You earned a B.A. and an M.D from the University of Washington. You are a retired family physician. What were the original interests in medicine, science, and skepticism/critical thinking for you?

I was not a science nerd; my BA was in Spanish language and literature. I was better at humanities than at science, but I chose to study medicine because I found medicine fascinating and because it offered a practical career. I think I always had a propensity to question authority and dogma, and I stopped believing in God by the age of 13; but I didn’t really become a skeptic/critical thinker until I started reading Skeptical Inquirer magazine and skeptical books, long after I was out of school. I was attracted to skepticism because it taught me that I was wrong about some of the things I had believed or never really questioned, and I found it very satisfying to correct my errors and learn truths about reality. I didn’t start writing until after I retired (I retired from the Air Force Medical Corps as a full colonel after twenty years service, the day before my 44th birthday). I found I could use my medical knowledge to educate the public about critical thinking and false beliefs about health.

5. What are some benign consequences of skepticism’s absence?

I don’t think there is anything benign about the absence of skepticism. Skepticism means not accepting beliefs without evidence, and that’s crucial to every aspect of life. If people don’t go by evidence they’re likely to make mistakes, whether it’s choosing a washing machine or deciding whether to get vaccinated. Skeptics are willing to admit that they could be wrong. I think that the biggest problem the world faces is people who are absolutely certain they are right about anything. Some people might consider belief in homeopathy to be benign, because the remedies are only water and have no side effects. Some people believe that placebos are benign, and “after all, they make people feel better.” But patients have died because they used homeopathy or other placebo treatments in place of effective treatments.

6. What are some historical and big negative consequences seen from its absence?

Where to start? Religious wars, persecution of minorities, genocide, denial of global warming, preventable diseases coming back because people refuse vaccines… I could go on and on.

7. Your main research and criticism is directed at alternative medicine. What are some personal favorites of egregious examples of alternative medicine without efficacy?

There’s no such thing as alternative medicine; there’s only medicine that has been proven to work and medicine that hasn’t. Once something has been proven to work, it’s not “alternative,” It’s just “medicine.” By definition, alternative treatments are not supported by good enough evidence to have earned them a place in mainstream medical practice. Perhaps the most egregious example is dilute homeopathic remedies, where every molecule of the active ingredient has been diluted out of a remedy. Homeopathy has been tested. It doesn’t work. It couldn’t possibly work unless our knowledge of physics, chemistry, and biology is wrong. Another egregious example is therapeutic touch and other types of “energy medicine” that claim to be manipulating an imaginary “human energy field.” Scientists have never detected any such thing, despite their ability to detect and quantify all kinds of energies down to the subatomic level. I have a 10-part video lecture series on YouTube where I discuss science-based medicine and all kinds of alternative medicines, with many more examples.

8. Who are some individuals that promote pseudoscience, bad science, and non-science as medicine in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary?

I could name lots of names, starting with Dr. Oz, AIDS denialists, cancer quacks, infamous Internet promoters of pseudoscience, and anti-vaccine zealots; but the more interesting question is whether they actually believe in what they are promoting (some are charlatans just out to make a buck, but I think most really do believe) and if so, why. That is covered in my video lecture series. It basically boils down to the way the human brain works. We are far more impressed by stories than by studies, we are so good at pattern recognition that we see patterns that aren’t real (like the Virgin Mary on a toasted cheese sandwich), we tend to jump to conclusions before we have all the evidence, and we let emotions trump reason. Science and critical thinking don’t come naturally to us; it requires a lot of education and effort to overcome our brain’s default thought processes, and not everyone can do it.

9. There are long-standing traditions such as prayer, where the efficacy is asserted by practitioners. Also, it tends to be claimed as unamenable to scientific and proper medical testing, which does not seem true/seems false. It has been done. When properly tested in double-blind, randomized trials, prayer fails the tests. What are some other similar examples and their outcomes?

All medical claims can be scientifically tested. Homeopaths claim that their treatments are too individualized to be studied in a randomized controlled trial like drugs are, but that’s nonsense. They could do their individualized prescribing and the patients could be randomized to either get what the homeopath prescribed or a placebo control. The two options could be coded, numbered, and dispensed by a third party who didn’t know which was which. Energy medicine practitioners could be tested to see if they can actually detect a “human energy field.” Therapeutic touch practitioners have been tested and have failed miserably.

10. James Randi makes continual reminders about everyone with the possibility of being fooled, even the scientifically educated and those with an inclination for critical thinking. Dr. Michael Shermer points to the Baloney Detection Kit, which was inspired by (the late) Dr. Carl Sagan. Those seem like good starts. You are associated with some initiatives such as the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry, Institute for Science in Medicine, Quackwatch, and Science-Based Medicine.[4],[5],[6],[7] What seem like the best tools to fight against fallacious beliefs and claims to you, especially in medicine?

If people have arrived at their beliefs without evidence, they are not likely to change their beliefs just because we show them evidence. And people violently resist the idea that they could have been fooled by others or could have deceived themselves. We are not likely to change fallacious beliefs; our goal is to put accurate information out there where seekers have a chance to find it instead of only finding false information. We direct our efforts at those who haven’t yet irrevocably made up their minds and at those who maybe haven’t even thought about the subject yet. Those are stop-gap measures. We are engaged in a neverending, Sisyphean struggle. The real solution would be to teach critical thinking skills to all children starting at the pre-school level, with constant reinforcement throughout education including the post-graduate level.

Thank you for your time, Dr. Hall.

Bibliography

  1. Committee for Skeptical Inquiry. (2016). CSI Fellows and Staff. Retrieved from http://www.csicop.org/about/csi_fellows_and_staff.
  2. Institute for Science in Medicine. (2016). Institute for Science in Medicine. Retrieved from http://www.scienceinmedicine.org/.
  3. Science-Based Medicine. (2016). Science-Based Medicine. Retrieved from https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/
  4. (2016). Quackwatch. Retrieved from http://www.quackwatch.com/.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Elected Fellow (2010), Committee for Skeptical Inquiry; Board & Founding Member, Institute for Science in Medicine; Advisor, Quackwatch; Associate Editor, Science-Based Medicine; (Retired) Family Physician.

[2] B.A., University of Washington; M.D., University of Washington.

[3] Photograph courtesy of Dr. Harriet Hall, M.D.

[4] Committee for Skeptical Inquiry. (2016). CSI Fellows and Staff. Retrieved from http://www.csicop.org/about/csi_fellows_and_staff.

[5] Institute for Science in Medicine. (2016). Institute for Science in Medicine. Retrieved from http://www.scienceinmedicine.org/.

[6] Science-Based Medicine. (2016). Science-Based Medicine. Retrieved from https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/

[7] Quackwatch. (2016). Quackwatch. Retrieved from http://www.quackwatch.com/.

Appendix II: Citation Style Listing

American Medical Association (AMA): Jacobsen S. An Interview with Dr. Harriet Hall, M.D. [Online].November 2016; 12(A). Available from: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-dr-harriet-hall-m-d.

American Psychological Association (APA, 6th Edition, 2010): Jacobsen, S.D. (2016, November 15). An Interview with Dr. Harriet Hall, M.D.Retrieved from http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-dr-harriet-hall-m-d.

Brazilian National Standards (ABNT): JACOBSEN, S. An Interview with Dr. Harriet Hall, M.D.In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 12.A, November. 2016. <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-dr-harriet-hall-m-d>.

Chicago/Turabian, Author-Date (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott. 2016. “An Interview with Dr. Harriet Hall, M.D..” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 12.A. http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-dr-harriet-hall-m-d.

Chicago/Turabian, Humanities (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott “An Interview with Dr. Harriet Hall, M.D..” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 12.A (November 2016). http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-dr-harriet-hall-m-d.

Harvard: Jacobsen, S. 2016, ‘An Interview with Dr. Harriet Hall, M.D.In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 12.A. Available from: <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-dr-harriet-hall-m-d>.

Harvard, Australian: Jacobsen, S. 2016, ‘An Interview with Dr. Harriet Hall, M.D.In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 12.A., http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-dr-harriet-hall-m-d.

Modern Language Association (MLA, 7th Edition, 2009): Scott D. Jacobsen. “An Interview with Dr. Harriet Hall, M.D..” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 12.A (2016):November. 2016. Web. <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-dr-harriet-hall-m-d>.

Vancouver/ICMJE: Jacobsen S. An Interview with Dr. Harriet Hall, M.D. [Internet]. (2016, November; 12(A). Available from: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-dr-harriet-hall-m-d.

License and Copyright

License

In-Sight Publishing and In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.
Based on a work at www.in-sightjournal.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen, and In-Sight Publishing and In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 2012-2017. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen, and In-Sight Publishing and In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal with appropriate and specific direction to the original content.  All interviewees co-copyright their interview material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

An Interview with Minister Anthony Grigor-Scott

Interviewer: Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Numbering: Issue 12.A, Idea: Outliers & Outsiders (Part Eight)

Place of Publication: Langley, British Columbia, Canada

Title: In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Web Domain: http://www.in-sightjournal.com

Individual Publication Date: November 8, 2016

Issue Publication Date: January 1, 2017

Name of Publisher: In-Sight Publishing

Frequency: Three Times Per Year

Words: 2,901

ISSN 2369-6885

Abstract

An Interview with Minister Anthony Grigor-Scott, Bible Believers’ Church (Sydney, New South Wales, Australia). He discusses: cultural, geographic, linguistic, and religious family background; influence on development; being a follower and minister of William Branham; characterization of William Branham in and out of the followers; the reasons for believing; the essential message of William Branham and the Gospel; whether followers of William Branham are part of a cult or not; core doctrines of the followers of William Branham; experience in and out of the community of believers; and the reasons for non-believers to follow the Believers’ theology.

KeywordsAnthony Grigor-Scott, Believers, cult, Gospel, Minister, Prophet, William Branham.

An Interview with Minister Anthony Grigor-Scott: Bible Believers’ Church (Sydney, New South Wales, Australia)[1],[2],[3]

*Footnotes in & after the interview, & bibliography & citation style listing after the interview.* 

1. In terms of culture, geography, language, and religion, where does your family background reside?

Australian-born, I represent the third generation of my family whose paternal antecedents emigrated from Scotland and my maternal antecedents from England.  In my formative years Australia was a homogenous nation of British stock speaking English and sharing social mores across an egalitarian socio-economic spectrum. As to religion, one was either Roman Catholic or Protestant and in those days even children were aware of the irreconcilable division.

2. How did this influence development?

My family were nominal Protestants; I attended Anglican Schools where chapel was weekly and divinity and comparative religions were taught. I attended Sunday school and later church which stood me in good stead as I have always believed in and loved the Lord Jesus. Business took me overseas: I began to seek the Lord and realized He has much more for His children than the modern-day Anglican Church has apprehended. Casting my net I attended YMCA chapel on six mornings, two weekly and one monthly charismatic service, Assemblies of God Sunday morning, Anglican services Sunday and Wednesday evenings and visited other denominations seeking further Light.

3. You are a follower of William Branham. What were pivotal or influential moments for you in becoming a follower and minister?

I follow William Branham as he follows Christ, listen with all readiness of mind then search the scriptures to ensure I am receiving the mind of Christ. A Scotsman who visited our Monday evening charismatic group introduced me to William Branham’s ministry. I recognized from the Bible there is no trinity in either the Old or New Testaments. Father, Son and Holy Ghost are three offices or dispensation claims. Jesus Christ,: the Author and Beginner of creation (John 1:3; Genesis 1:1) is that One Person creating Himself part of another, NEW CREATION—the continuation of Himself in the Church formed from the Holy Spirit taken from His side as Eve was the continuation of the first Adam being formed from flesh and bone taken from his side (Revelation 3:14; Colossians 1:18; II Corinthians 5:17). So the Bible is the story of God changing His form or unfolding Himself from the eternal Spirit alone with His thoughts to the flesh of His glorified Family. Jesus was the first God-Man—the virgin-born fullness of the godhead manifest in flesh to fulfil the part of KINSMAN Redeemer for Adam’s fallen race.

This essential revelation changed my life; the Bible became a new Book and I began my Christian journey. In obedience I was baptized by immersion in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ which is the Name (singular) of God’s three main offices (Matthew 28:18; Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38-39; Colossians 3:17). God’s Absolute is His Holy Bible. Apostle’s Creeds, catechisms, Easters and Christmases, a clerical hierarchy and organized religions are unscriptural reasoning against faith.

Since the fall every man is born in sin and cannot meet God’s requirement for redemption. Jesus was born by the will of the Father to do the will of the Father. In order to “born-again by the will of God” (John 1:13) we must recognize our day and become written epistles of its Message which is “the present Truth” —what Jesus is doing now (II Peter 1:12; I John 1:7). Otherwise ignorance will have us impersonating the Word for a day gone by as the Anglicans impersonate Martin Luther’s Sardis Church Age which ended in 1750.

Israel’s feast of Pentecost types the Gentile dispensation of grace which commenced the day of Christ’s resurrection and was followed by seven sabbaths or Church Ages distinguished by seven distinct baptisms of the Spirit that quickened the Word for the Age delivered by the “angel” to the Age. These seven men were Paul, Irenaeus, Martin, Columba, Martin Luther, John Wesley and William Branham. God’s Word comes only to a prophet; Paul was the prophet who wrote the New Testament expounding the common faith once delivered to the apostolic saints.

Through the Church Ages the Bible was sealed so Christ interceded for His elect, receiving their revelation of the Word for the hour He “winked at” their ignorance of the fullness and they were born-again. Laodicea ended in apostasy but the seventh angel was a prophet whose mission was “to restore the heart of His elect to the faith of their apostolic fathers, before striking the world with a curse” (Malachi 4:5-6b; Matthew 17:11). The Lord will do nothing without first showing a sign in the heavens and sending a prophet with warning and a way to escape the judgment (Psalm 19; Revelation 10:1-4; Amos 3:7).

After the end of the seventh Church Age and mediation Jesus claimed the Book of Redemption, opened the Seven Seals and took the throne as the saints crowned Him King of Kings and Judge (Revelation 4; 5; 10:1-7; John 5:27).  At this point William Branham received his anointing to reveal the mysteries of the Seven Thunders of Revelation 10 that are the revelations contained in the Seven Seals. It is these divinely revealed ‘mystery-truths’ that literally turn the heart of the children to their Pentecostal fathers. The denominations “know it not [and] scoffers, walking after their own lusts say: where is the promise of His [second or (Gk.) ‘parousia’] Coming? For since the fathers fell asleep all things continue as they were” (Matthew 12:32; II Peter 3:3-4; Revelation 3:17).

We live under the antitype of the holy convocation of the fiftieth day of Israel’s Pentecostal feast and by God’s help we have the perfect interpretation of His Word with divine vindication. Thus we no longer labour like the Church Age saints trying to ‘solve’ the mysteries of the Sealed Book,  because “in the days of the voice of the seventh angel the mystery of God was finished, as Christ had declared to His servants the prophets” (Revelation 10:7).

A further ‘pivotal moment’ was the revelation that redemption is over. Christ’s end-time Bride and the 144,000 elect Israelites were fully redeemed in Christ on Calvary being foreknown as receiving the fullness of the Word in the revelation of the Seven Seals or the Seven Trumpets. The Church Age saints received only PART-Word so the Blood laid on the Mercy Seat and Christ interceded for their ignorance until the last saint ordained to  the Laodicean Church Age was baptized into the Body (I Corinthians 13:10) and the Mercy Seat became the Judgment Seat.

From school days I knew God had promised a prophet, and “proving all things” I saw that the doctrine of this humble man was the faith once delivered to our apostolic fathers.

4. Outside of the “Believers,” he was a post-World War II Healing Revival preacher. Inside, to the Believers, he was a modern Prophet. What characterizes each perspective to you?

Outside:

Quoting II Timothy 4:2-5 the Lord commanded His prophet, “Do the work of an evangelist; this is not your tabernacle.” And I said, “Where is my tabernacle?” And He set me down under the bright blue sky, and He said, “Do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of your ministry. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but shall heap for themselves teachers, having itching ears and shall be turned from the truth to fables.”

He was to do the work of an evangelist until Laodicea apostatised: “make full proof of his ministry . . . and reveal the Son of man by discerning the thoughts and intents of the heart as it was in the days of Lot” (Luke 17:28-30; Genesis 18-19; Hebrews 4:12; 13:8). In the days of Lot three created men visited Abraham’s separated group. Abraham worshipped one Man as Elohim; He proved He was the Word by discerning the thoughts and intents of Abraham and Sarah’s hearts, the same sign would identify Jesus as the Christ. Meanwhile His two companions delivered a basic salvation Message to the inhabitants of Sodom.

The world is in a Sodom condition and Luke 17:28-30 was fulfilled when the Holy Spirit, veiled behind William Branham, a sinner-saved-by grace, “revealed Jesus Christ the same, yesterday, today and forever by discerning the thoughts and intents of the heart”; raising the dead, casting out demons, restoring sight to the blind, speech  and hearing to deaf mutes, making cripples whole and healing diseases while two messengers, Billy Graham and Oral Roberts preached to the churches in Sodom.

Matthew 24:37 (Genesis 6:1-4) is also fulfilled.  As it was in the days of Noah we live in a day of unparalleled scientific achievement, wealth, violence, corruption, and a repetition of the ‘original sin’ on a global scale—miscegenation between the races of Cain and Adam. This is genocide to Adam’s race as the progeny are not in the Book of Life. Applauded by apostate churchmen and self-seeking politicians, ‘multiculturalism’ is accursed by the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel; (Genesis 1:11, 25; 3:15; Revelation 22:18-19) as Jesus is the last Adam; He is not the last Cain.

Inside:

In the realm of the Supernatural William Branham’s ministry, like that of Jesus the Son of man whom he revealed, was to attract believers for his end-time Message which is the “Shout” of I Thessalonians 4:16 and the “midnight cry” of Matthew 25:6, confirmed by the “Voice” of Revelation 18:4 “calling the wise and foolish virgins out from Rome and her harlot daughter churches” into “the unity of the faith” for “the manifestation of the Sons of God and the translation” after the Laodiceans “turned away their ears from the truth unto fables” (Revelation 17:5; Ephesians 4:13; Romans 8:19; I Corinthians 15:52).

When Jesus Christ and William Branham were manifesting the Supernatural they were welcome in every synagogue and church; but when they delivered their Message each was rejected. And as John the Baptist introduced Christ’s first Coming, Brother Branham’s Message introduced His second or (Gk.) ‘parousia’ Coming in W_O_R_D form (I Corinthians 13:10). We are not to look for the Man from Galilee but for Light on the Word (Matthew 24:22-28; Zechariah 4:7).

Revelation 4, 5 and 10:1-4, the Laodicean Church Age and Christ’s mediation in the office Son of God were fulfilled on about March 8, 1963. From March 17- 24, 1963 the Prophet received his ‘Elijah’ anointing as he delivered The Revelation of the Seven Seals which brought Christ back to earth in W_O_R_D form (I Corinthians 13:10).

5. What convinces you of your perspective?

“My perspective is scriptural.” Many denominational people declare we are living in “the end-time” yet they have no prophet, no understanding of the Seven Seals, and have not seen the heavenly sign which are all mandated (Revelation 10:1-7; Amos 3:7).  “The end-time” cannot begin until the Lord displays a sign in the heavens and Christ opens and then reveals the Seven Seals through His prophet (Daniel 12:4, 9; Revelation 10:4). With the US dollar and world economy close to collapse and the United States anxious to fight Iran, Russia and China there is insufficient time for a prophet to fulfil Malachi 4:5, 6b and Revelation 10:7. So whoever he was, that prophet has been and his ministry was identical to that of William Branham.

William Branham passed the test for a prophet (Numbers 12:6; Deuteronomy 13:1-5; 18:15-22) and fulfilled all Scripture spoke concerning him. “My perspective” is based on scriptures fulfilled in our lifetime, testified by witnesses, recorded on film and in print, and preserved in 1,188 recorded sermons which feature thousands of discernments, prophecies and healings. William Branham was a prophet as thoroughly vindicated, or even more thoroughly vindicated than any prophet in all the ages from Enoch to this day, because this man of necessity had the capstone prophetic ministry, and God showed him forth. He did not need to speak for himself; God spoke for him by the voice of the sign.

6. What is the essential message of William Branham and the Gospel?

William Branham’s essential Message was founded on the revelations of the prophet Paul whose Message was built upon the revelations of the prophet Moses. It restored the apostolic faith, finished the mystery of God, introduced Christ’s second Coming and is calling Christ’s end-time Bride out from the world into oneness with the fullness of the Word which is Christ. It initiated the threefold PROCESS of the ‘rapture’ described in I Thessalonians 4:14-17 which began after the revelation of the Seven Seals in 1963. Thus William Branham’s Message will crown the Good News when “we which are alive and remain are caught up together with the resurrected Church Age saints to meet the Lord in the air”.

7. Some characterize the movement as a cult. Does this seem accurate to you? If not, why not?

Unless they realize God promised us a Prophet and that whoever he was he has been, they have failed to “prove all things” and “make their calling and election sure.”  It seems pride in wilful ignorance has preceded their fall, and their self-assured cultic folly shall be manifest to all men.

8. What are the core doctrines of the Believers of William Branham?

A clear understanding of the true Oneness of the godhead, scriptural water baptism in the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ which is the compound redemptive Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost (Acts 4:12; I Corinthians 10:48; Ephesians 4:5), and  the original sin.

9. What has been your experience of life in and out of the community of Believers?

The majority in community of Believers (so-called) are not born-again but like their nation they are under the spirit of Laodicea which means ‘people’s rights’ or communism (Revelation 3:14-22). When the Lord translates His end-time Bride they will so few they will not be missed amid the terrible natural catastrophes that strike earth with the curse of God’s wrath. “Strait is the gate and narrow is the way which leads unto eternal Life, and few there are that find it”.

I am astounded at the apostasy of the world church system and the corruption of our base and violent (once) Christian nations which remain vassals of the City of London, Vatican City State and its city state of the District of Columbia.

10. Why should non-believers follow the Believers’ theology?

Believers have ‘knee-ology’: theology is the educated guesses of educated men long deceased. Theology hung Jesus on the Cross! By theology many are “crucifying unto themselves the Son of God afresh and putting Him to an open shame.” Revelation 13:15-18 informs us that in several years those who refuse the mark of the beast, which is the trinity, will be martyred by the churches. United States’ al Qaeda mercenaries are now setting the stage for blind self-righteous retribution by the false church and its (once) Protestant image.  Jesus told Peter He would build His Church on the rock of revelation from Above and that the gates of hell could not prevail against faith. Without faith with repentance non-believers cannot follow the Lord.

Thank you for your time, Minister Grigor-Scott.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Minister Bible Believers’ Church (Sydney, New South Wales, Australia).

[2] Individual Publication Date: November 8, 2016 at www.in-sightjournal.com; Full Issue Publication Date: January 1, 2017 at https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

[3] Photograph courtesy of Minister Antony Grigor-Scott.

Appendix II: Citation Style Listing

American Medical Association (AMA): Jacobsen S. An Interview with Minister Anthony Grigor-Scott [Online].November 2016; 12(A). Available from: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-minister-anthony-grigor-scott.

American Psychological Association (APA, 6th Edition, 2010): Jacobsen, S.D. (2016, November 8). An Interview with Minister Anthony Grigor-ScottRetrieved from http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-minister-anthony-grigor-scott.

Brazilian National Standards (ABNT): JACOBSEN, S. An Interview with Minister Anthony Grigor-ScottIn-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 12.A, November. 2016. <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-minister-anthony-grigor-scott>.

Chicago/Turabian, Author-Date (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott. 2016. “An Interview with Minister Anthony Grigor-Scott.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 12.A. http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-minister-anthony-grigor-scott.

Chicago/Turabian, Humanities (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott “An Interview with Minister Anthony Grigor-Scott.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 12.A (November 2016). http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-minister-anthony-grigor-scott.

Harvard: Jacobsen, S. 2016, ‘An Interview with Minister Anthony Grigor-ScottIn-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 12.A. Available from: <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-minister-anthony-grigor-scott>.

Harvard, Australian: Jacobsen, S. 2016, ‘An Interview with Minister Anthony Grigor-ScottIn-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 12.A., http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-minister-anthony-grigor-scott.

Modern Language Association (MLA, 7th Edition, 2009): Scott D. Jacobsen. “An Interview with Minister Anthony Grigor-Scott.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 12.A (2016):November. 2016. Web. <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-minister-anthony-grigor-scott>.

Vancouver/ICMJE: Jacobsen S. An Interview with Minister Anthony Grigor-Scott [Internet]. (2016, November; 12(A). Available from: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-minister-anthony-grigor-scott.

License and Copyright

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In-Sight Publishing and In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.
Based on a work at www.in-sightjournal.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen, and In-Sight Publishing and In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 2012-2017. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen, and In-Sight Publishing and In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal with appropriate and specific direction to the original content.  All interviewees co-copyright their interview material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

An Interview with John Collins

Interviewer: Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Numbering: Issue 12.A, Idea: Outliers & Outsiders (Part Eight)

Place of Publication: Langley, British Columbia, Canada

Title: In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Web Domain: http://www.in-sightjournal.com

Individual Publication Date: November 1, 2016

Issue Publication Date: January 1, 2017

Name of Publisher: In-Sight Publishing

Frequency: Three Times Per Year

Words: 4, 993

ISSN 2369-6885

Abstract

An interview with John Collins. He discusses: cultural, geographic, linguistic, and religious family background; influence on his development; pivotal moments in following Branham and then not; characterization of members and non-members; what convinces him of his perspective; the essential message of William Branham and the Gospel; the potential status of the movement as a cult; the core doctrines of the Believers of William Branham; experience of life in and out of the William Branham community; and the reason Believers (and non-believers) should not follow the Believers’ theology.

KeywordsBelievers, cult, Gospel, John Collins, Prophet, William Branham.

An Interview with John Collins: Author & Webmaster, Seek The Truth[1],[2],[3]

*Footnotes in & after the interview, & bibliography & citation style listing after the interview.* 

1. In terms of culture, geography, language, and religion, where does your family background reside?

I was born in Jeffersonville, Indiana, and was raised in the states of Indiana, Arizona, South Carolina, Georgia, and Kansas.  Culturally, we were a mixture of different parts of the country, but I would say that the Southern Indiana culture had a great influence.  Both maternal and paternal sides of my family claimed to be “non-denominational Christian,” but aligned more closely with a unique flavor of Pentecostalism that originated in Indiana.

2. How did this influence development?

My grandfather was a key figure in the groups and splinter groups that form the religious following of William Branham that is collectively called “The Message.”  For about fifty years, my grandfather was the leader of Branham’s Tabernacle in Jeffersonville, Indiana. After Branham’s death in 1965, my grandfather was partially responsible for holding the cult together.

3. You were a follower of William Branham. What were pivotal or influential moments for you in becoming a follower and ex-member?

After being born and raised in “The Message,” I had little choice in becoming a member.  Because of my grandfather’s position of leadership and recognition, our family was what some would call “cult royalty,” which created a very difficult psychological barrier in attempting to leave the group.  This barrier was amplified by the group’s indoctrination. Like many religious cults, it programs its followers to believe that questioning fundamental cult doctrine is the pathway to destruction or even death.

It was after a series of life changing events that I began a journey, seeking to find answers to difficult questions that were surfacing through the indoctrinated fear.  I was suffering deep depression after job loss and severe illness in the family, and before long I began questioning life itself.  As time went on, the depression intensified and I found myself no longer able to rebound.

During this hardship, a cousin who had left “The Message” several years’ prior learned of my struggle and began phoning daily to offer support and encouragement.  This became fundamental in my exit from the group, because it was a difficult situation for my mind to reconcile.  While we were programmed to believe that any who left “The Message” were “possessed by a demon,” “backslidden,” or “evil,” my unbelieving cousin was literally saving my life from suicide.  In contrast, none in the cult were offering any support, and their neglect was beginning to seem like a result of the belief system I had begun to question.

This version of Pentecostalism focuses on “healing” as an evidence of the work of the Holy Spirit, while viewing sickness (especially mental health) as “demonic.”  As I turned to the “believers” for help, some of them associated my onset of depression with “demonic forces.”  Rather than offer support, they offered condemnation or fear.  At the climax of my struggle with depression, I was advised by professionals to begin a regimen of anti-depressants, and told that they were necessary for my body to function.  While my cousin supported their advice and encouraged me to get the help I needed, cult pastors warned me that they had witnessed others take such medication and shortly afterward, “demons led them away from ‘The Message.’”

Interestingly, I believe the cult pastors may have been correct, though I would disagree with the cause that led to the effect.

4. Outside of the “Believers,” he was a post-World War II Healing Revival preacher. Inside, to the Believers, he was a modern Prophet. What characterizes each perspective to you?

Branham was one of hundreds of evangelists who capitalized on political fear after the second World War.  There were several world-renowned healing revivalists — some of them who claimed prophecy several years before Branham’s birth.  There were also many “prophets” who gained popularity long after his death, but most of his followers are only aware of the [alleged] history Branham claimed.

People outside “the Message” can freely study his prophecies or compare his doctrine to the Christian Bible without indoctrinated fear of critical thought.  As they deprogram, many escapees study and recognize the number of times these “prophetic claims” were changed, and examine the “prophecies” that either failed or were “prophesied” long after the event they “predicted.”  Many of these people come to the conclusion that Branham was just another minister in a long line of “faith healers” in the Post WWII Healing Revival.  But “prophecies” that did not come to pass exactly as he “predicted” place Branham in a much different category with Christians examining his message.  The Christian Bible offers many warnings about men who “prophesy” and their “predictions” do not come to pass with full accuracy.  To the informed Christian community Branham would be considered a charlatan.

Those in “The Message” repeatedly listen to the published recordings of Branham’s sermons from 1947 to 1965, and their examination of Branham’s many prophetic claims is limited to his own account.  Most in “The Message” cult are not aware of any failed prophecies, and  believers are not informed of the alterations Branham made to those “predictions” or their “outcomes.”  Worse, they are sheltered from any factual evidence unsupportive of Branham’s claims, often instructed by cult pastors to avoid television, internet, social media, or other means of gaining information to promote critical thinking.  In fact, Branham himself taught that “science” and “education” was demonic.[4]

Simply put: believers who have never or only partially examined the accuracy of Branham’s “prophecies” consider him a “modern prophet.”  Those who fully examine the facts usually become “former believers”, and see Branham as just one of many in a long line of revivalists capitalizing on the fears that came with world conflict.  I myself was in the former category for over thirty years.

5. What convinces you of your perspective?

Being raised from birth under the continual undue influence of a separationist belief system makes even the smallest change in perspective extremely difficult.  Most of the people we have worked with to escape the cult describe their journey to freedom in much the same way:  “We left kicking and screaming.”  One does not easily admit being wrong, and it’s painful to accept being wrong on levels of this magnitude.  In our case, a change of perspective is to admit living in an alternate reality while striving to convince others to live there.  It took several months to fully change my perspective, and that change came only through countless hours of careful examination of the belief system and the men who created it.

At the beginning of my journey, I was convinced that Branham was a prophet, sent by Almighty God to warn the world of the coming Apocalypse.  Members of “The Message” are indoctrinated to believe that Branham started having “divine predictions” as a toddler, and those “prophetic occurrences” became more frequent as he grew older.  Cult pastors often recite or play recordings of Branham’s many accounts of his “life story,” describing a “Huck Finn”-style childhood in the hills of Kentucky, trapping and fishing to support his widowed mother and several siblings in a one-room log cabin near Burkesville, Kentucky.

During the indoctrination process, many of the children in the cult cry as they listen to the accounts of tragic events in Branham’s life that he endured under the wrath of an angry God as he was punished for avoiding his “calling” to be a Pentecostal “prophet.”  According to Branham, after having a series of “seven prophecies” as a Baptist minister in 1933 (or 1931 or 1932), he ignored “God’s calling” for him to be a Pentecostal minister at the advice of his mother-in-law.  Because of this choice, Branham claimed that his father, brother, sister-in-law, wife, and daughter died in within weeks of the 1937 Flood that pummeled the city of Jeffersonville.  Under this strong level of mental conditioning, even the adults forbid themselves to question how Branham’s father died when Branham was a small child[5] while also dying long after Branham began his own religious ministry.[6]

It is only after a “believer” is able to push through the programmed fear enough to question the belief system that they are finally able to critically examine Branham’s self-promoted claims to be a modern prophet.  Beyond those boundaries, one becomes free to examine factual evidence to either support or deny his claims.  It sometimes takes years before an ex-member can examine historical fact in a balanced and rational approach.

While the cult would have its members believe Branham’s prophetic insight was 100% accurate, newspaper and magazine articles, court record, and Branham’s own transcripts tell a much different story.  Most of his “seven prophecies” were introduced into his sermons long after the event they describe, yet many details of the “prediction” are found to be inaccurate.  Many descriptions of the “prophecies” change from retelling to retelling, to the extent that over time some become entirely new “prophecies.”  If we count the many changes, additions, and subtractions to Branham’s list of “seven prophecies,” we end up with a list of fifteen.[7]  Some of these fifteen appear to have been a result of World’s Fairs, newspaper and magazine articles.[8]

Such is the case with many of Branham’s “predictions” beyond the fifteen.  Branham convinced his followers that he predicted the death of sixteen men during the construction of an Ohio River bridge,[9] yet Coast Guard logs, bridge historians, and newspaper articles do not support his claim.  Interestingly, newspapers describe sixteen men dying years before his birth on another bridge nearby.[10]  Similarly, fundamental issues exist with each of Branham’s prophetic claims.  After a short period of examining the accuracy of his “predictions”, the examiner is forced to ask themselves the question: “Was Branham really a ‘prophet’?”

Still, this is not enough to solidify one’s position.  Though a man proclaiming to be a prophet has many failed or inaccurate prophecies, we must leave room for the title “false prophet.”  As strange as this may sound, it takes far more examination to realize that this title also does not fit.  One must separate the “mythical Branham” from the “historical Branham.”  As the researcher digs deeper into historical fact to reconstruct the “historical Branham”, or the account of Branham’s life that we can confirm through documented historical fact, one begins to question even the title “false prophet.”

Branham’s ministry began through one Rev. Roy E. Davis,[11] who fled from Louisville, Kentucky after being exposed for sex with a minor[12], fraud[13], and theft.  Davis was an official spokesman for the Ku Klux Klan[14], and was one of the founding members of William Joseph Simmons’ 1915 reincarnation of the Klan.  Davis claimed to be one of the only men who could boast of having achieved all degrees of the Klan, and helped write the Klan’s constitution, by-laws, and ritual when it was revived.[15]

Shortly after leaving Louisville, Davis started a Pentecostal Baptist church in Jeffersonville, Indiana, making Branham an elder.[16]  After a series of civil and criminal lawsuits in the Jeffersonville area, Davis left Jeffersonville, and Branham assumed leadership of the congregation.  Elders in Davis’ church transitioned into Branham’s church.[17]  From 1915 through the late 1960’s, Roy Davis left behind a trail of illegal activity from Georgia to California as he rose from official spokesperson of the Klan to Imperial Grand Dragon of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.[18]  Davis and his accomplice, former Congressman and Klansman William D. Upshaw began promoting Branham’s ministry after having claimed “prophecy” to defraud religious victims in the San Bernardino, California area.  Their promotion apparently resulted in Branham’s sudden and instant popularity, especially when the (very mobile) Upshaw claimed to be healed by Branham from a life confined to a wheelchair.[19]  After discovering the sinister history behind the creation of Branham’s ministry, along with the long trail of deception and fraud by his creators, it becomes apparent why Branham was less than truthful about his past.

The “historical” Branham casts huge doubts on Branham’s supernatural claims.  When comparing recorded history to Branham’s supernatural tales, the researcher begins to notice huge discrepancies and conflicting statements.  Tragic, life-changing events one would never forget are not consistent from retelling to retelling, and it becomes obvious that Branham embellished or created stories.  And it appears his creation was for the sole purpose of establishing the persona of an illiterate, Old-Testament-style prophet living in a modern world.

It is at this realization that most escapees of “The Message” cult begin to question every claim made by Branham.  Claims that can be examined historically, including prophecies, match the same pattern of discrepancies and conflicts. As a result, most researchers conclude that his “prophecies” are not accurate.

Once presented with the evidence, they require no convincing to leave the cult.  The facts speak for themselves, and Branham’s supernatural claims quickly unravel by studying his own testimonies.  As I stated, I was fully immersed into “The Message” for over thirty years.  When the facts became available, I fled for my life.

6. What is the essential message of William Branham and the Gospel?

When I speak to new escapees from the Branham cult, I find that it is easier to understand their particular “flavor” of “The Message” by asking them the question:  “What was Branham’s ‘Message’”.  Few cult churches agree on the nature of “The Message,” yet all assume Branham had a consistent “Message.”

All “Message” cult churches believe that Branham was sent by Almighty God to prepare the world for the second coming of Jesus Christ.  But within that summary, each “sect” of the cult has different interpretations of the “Message,” insomuch that this “preparation” becomes difficult to reconcile.  Some believe that Branham himself was the return of Jesus Christ, while others believe him to be a prophet.  Some believe him to be a prophet, but believe his “Message” was the return of Jesus Christ.  Others still believe that he was preparing the way for the Christ, just as John the Baptist did in the King James Bible.  Extremists in the “Message” cult claim that they are the Christ to replace Branham’s “Christ.”

Likely, these differences are a result of the believers falsely assuming Branham’s “Message” was consistent from 1945 to 1965.  When cult members describe his sermons as “The Message” they describe “The Message” in such a way that it would seem persistent and consistent.  Escapees who examine his sermons usually identify several fundamental inconsistencies.  Ironically, some cult sects also have identified inconsistencies, and believe that only a subset of the sermons, from 1963 to 1965 are “The Message,” creating a new “Message.”

If one fully examines the many conflicting “Messages,” however, there is one consistent theme.  Branham’s “gospel,” could be best summarized as this: God sent me [Branham], therefore the words I [Branham] speak are the Voice of God to you.  In fact, Branham himself began making this claim in 1951:

Now, I’m just your brother, by the grace of God. But when the Angel of the Lord moves down, It becomes, then, a Voice of God to you. Maybe it… If I offended you by saying that, forgive me. But I felt that might been resented. But I am God’s Voice to you. See? I say that again. That time was under inspiration. See? And I—I felt bad about it the first time, but It repeated it. Now see, I can say nothing in myself. But what He shows me, I say it.

Branham, 51-0505 – My Commission

Using this “Voice of God” statement as a basis to compare his different “Messages,” they quickly align.  He claimed that he was born the day after cult leader John Alexander Dowie died[20] (March 10, 1907), becoming the “biblical Elisha” to the believers of Dowie – who believed Dowie was the “prophet Elijah.”  Christians are familiar with Elisha’s “double portion” of the Spirit of God, and those who believe “The Message” place this endowment upon Branham.   Therefore, most believers see Branham as the “return of Elijah”.

Interestingly, Branham also claimed to have been born in two years later, 1909, for another “Message.”  In this much different “Message,” Branham claims to be similar to Moses, and convinces his followers that an “angel” told him that he would be given the same “two signs” of Moses.[21]  Though he signed his first marriage certificate using birth year 1908, and though most Christians are familiar with the “three signs of Moses,”[22] not two, many of his followers accept this version of “The Message.”  Many combine the two, believing Branham was “Elijah” who had the “two signs of Moses.”

Branham also claimed to be similar to John the Baptist, who would introduce Jesus,[23] and compared himself (or more specifically, his cult) to the “five-hundred-year-old Enoch” that walked with Noah before the Great Flood.[24]  Though the Christian Bible describes an Enoch that escaped death at age 365 and Noah as the most righteous man on the face of the planet, this version of Branham’ “gospel” compares his cult to an Enoch figure who escaped destruction while comparing other Christians to an “unrighteous Noah” that suffered the Flood.

While there are too many “Messages” to list in this article, all bear the same basic characteristics, which can be summarized as follows:

  • God is about to send “judgment” to those who did not listen to me [Branham]
  • Those who listen to me [Branham] will escape a horrific death
  • Those who oppose me [Branham] will suffer a horrific death
  • My [Branham’s] prophecies confirm this to be true
  • My [Branham’s] sermons are the Voice of Almighty God.

7. Some characterize the movement as a cult. Does this seem accurate to you? If so, why?

Any group of people who form a certain set of beliefs based around the life and times of another person is a “cult,” and that term in-and-of-itself is not problematic.  After the Jonestown Massacre when Americans were discovering the death of hundreds of members of the People’s Temple cult following of Jim Jones, this word became associated with pure evil.  Interestingly, Branham appears to have played a significant part in lifting Jones into power[25] when he held a joint meeting with Branham in Indianapolis.[26]

Whether or not “The Message” is labeled as a “cult” is not of any great importance.  But whether the group is labeled as a “destructive cult” is of great concern.  According to Steven Hassan’s B.I.T.E. model[27], a destructive cult is any group using psychological and other technique to control behavior, information, and emotions while limiting information available to its members.  Hassan’s foundation, Freedom of Mind, lists “The Message” as a mind control cult meeting all of these criteria and lists some of the ways in which they do.[28]

In working with those who have escaped the cult, we have not yet came across a single person who does not agree with Hassan’s assessment.  Many use the term “brainwashing,” many are angry that so much information has been withheld from the public, and all would remember altering their behavior to conform to the group.  It is the thought control that is most problematic, because one must fully deprogram before beginning to understand this concept or recognizing the level of control.

After deprogramming, most cult escapees feel violated in a similar manner to those who’ve suffered years of sexual or physical abuse.  Some suffer PTSD, and all who find freedom would recognize the “spiritual abuse.”

8. What are the core doctrines of the Believers of William Branham?

Like the many “Messages” of Branham, there are just as many sets of “core beliefs.”  Each set is similar in the fact that they were based upon American Pentecostalism, but differ in which core beliefs are required to “escape destruction.”  As cult victims escape, they often compare differences between the core set of doctrines in their “Message sect” to other escapees.  This comparison results in an initial state of shock, but after examining Branham’s transcripts, it becomes apparent that each set of beliefs and rules were based on Branham’s own statements.  We have attempted to capture some of the most common of these doctrines and beliefs on seekyethetruth.com, however it would be very time-consuming to identify and document them all.

9. What has been your experience of life in and out of the community of Believers?

I can honestly say that I did not feel as though I “suffered” or was “brainwashed” for the first thirty-plus years of my life while trapped in a religious cult.  In fact, it took me several months after escaping to use the word “cult.”  The people were very close to each other, like one big family.  And there are many, many good people in “The Message.”  A destructive cult cannot grow without healthy members and situations.  I did not experience the physical and sexual abuse that many cult escapees describe, and did not feel oppressed by the many extra-biblical rules.  Having been born and raised in the cult from birth, I did not long for freedoms that I had never experienced.

After escaping, however, my perspective changed considerably, and after only a few years I recognized this level of “closeness” as unhealthy.  Like having been born and raised as a prisoner-of-war who returned to America years later, the taste freedom is bittersweet.  One does not know oppression until they have experienced freedom.

Every aspect of my life has changed for the better.  No longer are my thoughts being controlled through fear tactics and psychological technique, and I’m free to think.  No longer are extra-biblical rules imposed upon me, and I’m free to worship.  No longer does my behavior conform to a group, and I have experienced the benefit of individuality.  But most important, no longer is vast amounts of information being withheld from me to make a very flawed set of beliefs appear to be perfection.

10. Why should Believers (and non-believers) not follow the Believers’ theology?

Whether you are a “believer” or an “unbeliever,” it does not take much study to recognize Branham’s self-promotion.  A simple examination of any the “messages” will paint a picture of a man whose “predictions” or “supernatural experiences” placed himself in a category above other men and women of his religious following.  Historically speaking, men who do this have led their groups to tragic destruction – some of which were a result of Branham’s influence.  Jim Jones promoted himself, and took the lives of over 900 people.  Leo Mercier, a “Message” cult pastor of a commune Branham supported, physically and sexually molested his followers.[29]  Paul Schafer’s “Message” commune in Chili was recently brought to the big screen in the movie “Colonia,” describing the rape and torture of “believers.”[30]  Any time a group of people place a single human in absolute authority of doctrine and/or scripture, it is a potential for grave danger.  The fruits of Branham’s “Message” speak for themselves.

Though these examples may seem extreme, none of the victims viewed themselves as “extremists” when recruited.  Yet they slowly became victims of extremist leaders by placing full authority of scripture and doctrine into the hands of fellow human beings.  This practice continues still today in the “Message.”  William Branham is given full authority of scripture and doctrine, and many cult pastors are given similar power while their victims fall prey.   At the same time, cult pastors are withholding controversial information for the sole purpose of limiting their victim’s choice to leave on their own free will, in a strategy very similar to the extreme examples before their tragic events.  Worse, indoctrination camps are being established to program children before they are able to make mature decisions.

The question is not whether or not cult members should follow William Branham’s “theology.”  The question is whether or not they are aware of the dangers in the choices they have made, and whether or not those choices are being influenced by the withholding of critical information.  The potential for tragedy is very high in a splintered group of “believers” who are being persuaded by limited information and undue influence.

Thank you for your time, Mr. Collins.

Bibliography

  1. A Dreadful Fate – Terrible Caisson Disaster on the Ohio River – Sixteen Men Drowned Like Rats. 1890, Jan 10.  Dixon Evening Telegraph.
  2. Branham, William. 1965, August 1.  “God of this Evil Age.”
  3. Branham, William. 1960, August 5.  “Lamb and Dove.”
  4. Branham, William. 1951, September 29.  “Our Hope is in God.”
  5. Branham, William. 1963, March 18.  “The First Seal.”
  6. Branham, William. 1953, June 1.  “Whatever He Says To You, Do It.
  7. Branham, William. 1951, July 19.  “Who Hath Believed Our Report?”
  8. Branham, William. 1959, October 4.  “Who Is This.”
  9. Brown, Ellrodt. 2012, May 9.  Insight: German sect victims seek escape from Chilean nightmare past.    Accessed from http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-chile-sect-idUSBRE8480MN20120509
  10. Collins, J. (2016, October 7). Colonia Dignidad and Jonestown. Retrieved from http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/?page_id=67352.
  11. Collins, J. & Hassan, S. (2016, October 7).  Mind Control and Jonestown. Retrieved from http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/?page_id=67372.
  12. Davis Indicted by Grand Jury. 1930, Oct 14, Courier Journal.
  13. Deep Study: Roy E. Davis, Imperial Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan and the Kennedy Assassination. 2016, October 10.  Accessed from http://seekyethetruth.com/resources-deep-davis.aspx
  14. Deep Study: The Branham Tabernacle. 2016, October 10.  Accessed from http://seekyethetruth.com/resources-deep-branham_tabernacle.aspx
  15. Deep Study: William D. Upshaw and the Imperial Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. 2016, October 10.  Accessed from http://seekyethetruth.com/resources-deep-upshaw.aspx
  16. First Pentecostal Baptist – Dr. Roy E. Davis Pastor. 1933, February 18.  Evening News.
  17. Group Information: The Message. (2016, October 15).  Accessed from https://freedomofmind.com/Info/infoDet.php?id=883&title=The_Message
  18. Klan Refused Hall. 1923, Jan 12.  Reading Times.
  19. Ku Klux Klan Active in Shreveport, Area. 1961, February 10.  The Times (Shreveport).
  20. People v. Loker. (2008, July 7).  44 CAL. 4TH 691, 188 P.3D 580, 80 CAL. RPTR. 3D 630
  21. Posts on the Municipal Bridge Vision. 2016, October 10.  Accessed from http://searchingforvindication.com/bridge.html
  22. Reiterman, Tim and John Jacobs, Raven: The Untold Story of Jim Jones and His People, (USA: Dutton Adult, 1982, 622 pages).
  23. Steven Hassan’s BITE Model of Cult Mind Control. (2016, October 15).  Accessed from https://www.freedomofmind.com/Info/BITE/bitemodel.php
  24. The Basics: The Prophecies of 1933. 2016, October 10.  Accessed from http://seekyethetruth.com/resources-basics-1933prophecies.aspx
  25. The Easy Questions: Driverless Eggcar. 2016, October 10.  Accessed from http://seekyethetruth.com/resources-easy-eggcar.aspx.
  26. The Intersection of Branham and Jim Jones. (2016, October 15).  Accessed from http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/?page_id=65112
  27. The Three Signs of Moses. 2006, November 10.  Accessed from https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/the-three-signs-of-moses
  28. Branham’s First Pastor. 1950, October.  Voice of Healing.  Accessed from http://en.believethesign.com/index.php/File:VofHealingOct50pg14.jpg
  29. Writ Is Issued for Evangelist. 1931, Sept 9.  Courier Journal

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Author & Webmaster, Seek The Truth

[2] Individual Publication Date: November 1, 2016 at www.in-sightjournal.com; Full Issue Publication Date: January 1, 2017 at https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

[3] Photograph courtesy of John Collins.

[4] Branham, William.  1965, August 1.  “God of this Evil Age.”

[5] Branham, William.  1951, July 19.  “Who Hath Believed Our Report?”

[6] Branham, William.  1953, June 1.  “Whatever He Says To You, Do It.

[7] The Basics: The Prophecies of 1933.  2016, October 10.  Accessed from http://seekyethetruth.com/resources-basics-1933prophecies.aspx

[8] The Easy Questions: Driverless Eggcar.  2016, October 10.  Accessed from http://seekyethetruth.com/resources-easy-eggcar.aspx.

[9] Posts on the Municipal Bridge Vision.  2016, October 10.  Accessed from http://searchingforvindication.com/bridge.html

[10] A Dreadful Fate – Terrible Caisson Disaster on the Ohio River – Sixteen Men Drowned Like Rats.  1890, Jan 10.  Dixon Evening Telegraph.

[11] Wm. Branham’s First Pastor.  1950, October.  Voice of Healing.  Accessed from http://en.believethesign.com/index.php/File:VofHealingOct50pg14.jpg

[12] Davis Indicted by Grand Jury.  1930, Oct 14, Courier Journal.

[13] Writ Is Issued for Evangelist.  1931, Sept 9.  Courier Journal

[14] Klan Refused Hall.  1923, Jan 12.  Reading Times.

[15] Ku Klux Klan Active in Shreveport, Area.  1961, February 10.  The Times (Shreveport).

[16] First Pentecostal Baptist – Dr. Roy E. Davis Pastor.  1933, February 18.  Evening News.

[17] Deep Study: The Branham Tabernacle.  2016, October 10.  Accessed from http://seekyethetruth.com/resources-deep-branham_tabernacle.aspx

[18] Deep Study: Roy E. Davis, Imperial Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan and the Kennedy Assassination.  2016, October 10.  Accessed from http://seekyethetruth.com/resources-deep-davis.aspx

[19] Deep Study: William D. Upshaw and the Imperial Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan.  2016, October 10.  Accessed from http://seekyethetruth.com/resources-deep-upshaw.aspx

[20] Branham, William.  1951, September 29.  “Our Hope is in God.”

[21] Branham, William.  1960, August 5.  “Lamb and Dove.”

[22] The Three Signs of Moses.  2006, November 10.  Accessed from https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/the-three-signs-of-moses

[23] Branham, William.  1959, October 4.  “Who Is This.”

[24] Branham, William.  1963, March 18.  “The First Seal.”

[25] Reiterman, Tim and John Jacobs, Raven: The Untold Story of Jim Jones and His People, (USA: Dutton Adult, 1982, 622 pages).

[26] The Intersection of Branham and Jim Jones.  (2016, October 15).  Accessed from http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/?page_id=65112

[27] Steven Hassan’s BITE Model of Cult Mind Control.  (2016, October 15).  Accessed from https://www.freedomofmind.com/Info/BITE/bitemodel.php

[28] Group Information: The Message.  (2016, October 15).  Accessed from https://freedomofmind.com/Info/infoDet.php?id=883&title=The_Message

[29] People v. Loker.  (2008, July 7).  44 CAL. 4TH 691, 188 P.3D 580, 80 CAL. RPTR. 3D 630

[30] Brown, Ellrodt.  2012, May 9.  Insight: German sect victims seek escape from Chilean nightmare past.  Reuters.  Accessed from http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-chile-sect-idUSBRE8480MN20120509

Appendix II: Citation Style Listing

American Medical Association (AMA): Jacobsen S. An Interview with John Collins [Online].November 2016; 12(A). Available from: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-john-collins.

American Psychological Association (APA, 6th Edition, 2010): Jacobsen, S.D. (2016, November 1). An Interview with John CollinsRetrieved from http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-john-collins.

Brazilian National Standards (ABNT): JACOBSEN, S. An Interview with John CollinsIn-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 12.A, November. 2016. <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-john-collins>.

Chicago/Turabian, Author-Date (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott. 2016. “An Interview with John Collins.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 12.A. http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-john-collins.

Chicago/Turabian, Humanities (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott “An Interview with John Collins.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 12.A (November 2016). http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-john-collins.

Harvard: Jacobsen, S. 2016, ‘An Interview with John CollinsIn-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 12.A. Available from: <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-john-collins>.

Harvard, Australian: Jacobsen, S. 2016, ‘An Interview with John CollinsIn-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 12.A., http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-john-collins.

Modern Language Association (MLA, 7th Edition, 2009): Scott D. Jacobsen. “An Interview with John Collins.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 12.A (2016):November. 2016. Web. <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-john-collins>.

Vancouver/ICMJE: Jacobsen S. An Interview with John Collins [Internet]. (2016, November; 12(A). Available from: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-john-collins.

License and Copyright

License

In-Sight Publishing and In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.
Based on a work at www.in-sightjournal.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen, and In-Sight Publishing and In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 2012-2017. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen, and In-Sight Publishing and In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal with appropriate and specific direction to the original content.  All interviewees co-copyright their interview material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

An Interview with John Shirley (Part Four)

Interviewer: Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Numbering: Issue 12.A, Idea: Outliers & Outsiders (Part Eight)

Place of Publication: Langley, British Columbia, Canada

Title: In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Web Domain: http://www.in-sightjournal.com

Individual Publication Date: October 22, 2016

Issue Publication Date: January 1, 2017

Name of Publisher: In-Sight Publishing

Frequency: Three Times Per Year

Words: 2,346

ISSN 2369-6885

John Shirley.jpg

Abstract

An Interview with John Shirley. He discusses: possible political, philosophical, and ethical functions of science fiction; general philosophy; ethical philosophy; political philosophy; social philosophy; economic philosophy; marks of good writing about the future; marks of bad writing; science fiction writers predicting the world of now; science fiction and the near future; science fiction wrong about the future; tiresome tropes in science fiction; apocalypses overdone; dealing or failing to deal with climate change; large oncoming turning points in future history; colonization of nearby stars or restricting to the Sun and the Solar System; good techniques to learn to imagine the future; near and far future individuals differing from us; America’s prospects to being the dominant nation in the 21st century; the 22nd century; India and China becoming the new world powers; personal heroes; upcoming collaborative projects; upcoming solo projects; recommended authors; and suggested resources.

Keywords: author, fiction, John Shirley, science, science fiction, writer.

 An Interview with John Shirley: Science Fiction Author and Writer (Part Four)[1],[2],[3]

*Footnotes in & after the interview, & bibliography & citation style listing after the interview.*

37. What (if any) political, philosophical, and ethical functions can or should be served by science fiction?

Science fiction at its best is a mirror, it shows us ourselves as we are, projected into futurological settings so we can see ourselves objectively. Self-observation, critical self-knowledge, is of enormous value. It also projects the present, extrapolates, so that provides a model for possible failures. The novel 1984 helped us avoid —to some extent—Big Brother, in this nation. Envisioning nuclear wastelands in fiction helped motivate us to control nuclear weapon proliferation to an extent. (Humanity needs to get rid of them, of course). We can test out alternate societies in fiction—how would an anarchist society work? What would be the downside and the upside, what would be the social cost of it? And so on.

38. What general philosophy seems the most correct to you?

Scientific methodological thinking moderated by secular humanism, and respect for higher consciousness.

39. What ethical philosophy seems the most correct to you?

A careful cultivation and maintenance of empathy while still maintaining a capability for lethal self defense.

40. What political philosophy seems the most correct to you?

Democracy but with a strong federal (or global centrality) entity overseeing things so as to impose fair rule of law, and infused with respect for human rights and the environment.

41. What social philosophy seems the most correct to you?

A synthesis of socialism and the marketplace; social safety nets that are more extensive than now, but limited so people always have room for motivation. Freedom of sexual relations between consenting adults; legalization of possession of narcotics if they’re not being sold by the possessor illegally; treating drug addiction with rehabilitation; access to medicine for all including mental health care.

42. What economic philosophy seems the most correct to you?

Economic stimulus from the center of society; numerous people employed with good benefits and good wages to maintain infrastructure. A reasonably high minimum wage. Rejection of libertarianism.

43. What seem like the marks of good writing about the future?

People writing from a grounding in many forms of literature, a good grounding in the English language, and not too much reliance on movies and television and animation and comics for genre inspiration. Those things are fine, but instead, use objective observation of the world to make your projections; instead of just coming up with new variants of old stories, find new ideas. Understand the social implications of the sf world being created, not just tech. Appreciate characterization.

44. What seem like the marks of bad writing?

Cliche, bad dialogue, reliance on movies and so on for inspiration, lack of grounding in good books of all kinds, laziness, self indulgence, vain overwriting; confusing underwriting.

45. Did any of the writers from the golden age of science fiction come close to predicting the world of now?

HG Wells famously predicted a number of things. You can look that up. I guess he was proto-golden age. The Marching Morons by Pohl and Kornbluth predicted many aspects of our world now. Cordwainer Smith predicted much techno interfacing.

46. What can science fiction tell us about the near future?

That people writing research papers will run out of ideas for questions and repeat their questions. But, see The Sheep Look Up by John Brunner; his predictions of the social consequences of toxifying our food and environment.

47. What does science fiction tend to get wrong about the future?

It fails to look at the dark side of technology and the dark side of sheer growth in civilization.

48. What tropes are you tired of seeing in science fiction?

I rarely read it anymore; I read science magazines instead; I read history a great deal. But I dislike science fiction that assumes libertarian ideals are fruitful in a positive way; that the marketplace alone is helpful. This has been cropping up. A society without regulation is a society ruled by corporate overlords.

49. Which apocalypses have been overdone?

Obviously the zombie apocalypse. The Mad Max assumption—although I like the Mad Max movies—of endless wasteland. BIG wasteland expansion for a while is likely; endless, not likely.

50. How have we dealt with (or failed to deal with) climate change?

We’ve mostly failed, though some inroads have been made. The recent international conference was at least a good start; the Chinese seem to be recognizing that it’s real and they’re a big part of the problem. We’ve failed to control egregious pollution emissions like coal burning particulates (with it, mercury pollution in the sea), methane from various industries. Big industry— the petroleum industry’s refineries, for example—is still allowed too much air pollution.

51. What seem like some of the large oncoming turning points in future history?

The exponential expansion (not a singularity but significant) of computer technology will combine into an overarching system, based on the internet; it will be vulnerable and if it collapses there could be global chaos for awhile. I think there will be a confrontation—much more strident than now—with radical Islam and, later, with radical-right Christianity. The former may lead to a world war—probably—but not one that will employ nuclear weapons unless perhaps small tactical nukes. I think that radical Islam will be shattered by a general global prohibition, a rather draconian one I’m afraid. There will be a “reformation” or “enlightenment period” in Islam. That will make Muslim civilizations civilized. Women will be more assertive in global society and will insist on an end to patriarchal systems in the third world. There will be women’s militias enforcing this modeled on the Kurdish women’s militia groups. Our abuse of the ocean will reach a climax of negative side effects…

52. Will we colonize nearby stars or restrict ourselves to the Sun and the Solar System?

Eventually the human race will expand to the stars. Either we’ll devise new types of spacecraft drives or we’ll devise self-sustaining highly insulated spacecraft that will take colonists there over long periods of time.

53. What are some good techniques to learn how to imagine the future?

Read laymen’s science publications, and use your imagination, but also just develop observation of the world at large. Developing patterns are visible if you look. Make spreadsheets (I do it in my mind) or charts. Use computer models. Hire people like me.

54. How might future individuals differ from us – near and far future?

Near future I predict a dismaying elitism, with many elitists shrivelling into dependency on designer drugs and VR lives; “second life” in the worst way. But others will be technocrats, some power hungry, others driven by humane impulses. In the far future, humanity will probably have “primitivists” and somewhat cyborgian people, all of whom are eventually made irrelevant by mutated homo superiors, who, I hope, will retain empathy while increasing intelligence and lifespan. These mutated human variants might be the result of genetic engineering. The whole issue of eugenics will raise its frightening head again.

55. Insofar as the prospects for the 21st century, does America continue to be a dominant nation?

The evidence is, yes, because despite the resistance on the part of a minority we continue to take in immigrants, many of whom are intelligent and creative, most of whom are hardworking, and they’ll make us stronger. The USA also is very adaptable—it takes three steps forward, then one or two back, but we profit by some progress. We have actually made great progress in the area of alternative energy—not as much as we need to make but it is a successful field, and it is expanding. While the idiocracy threatens us, there are still lots of people interested in education and many, many young people interested in tolerance. If the huge stresses coming from climate disruption are not too overwhelming the USA will do well: it is a well-founded social experiment. It corrects itself. It eliminated slavery, it allowed unions, women got the vote, and so on. IF we can reign in the religious right…there is much to hope for.

56. What about the 22nd century?

Recovery from world ecological sickness—like a person very sick from cancer, recovering, walking again.

57. Do India and China become the new world powers?

India seems to drag its feet. It can’t even provide itself with reasonably clean water. (Yes, I know, Flint, Michigan, but we’re far better at that on the whole.) China will be a great power as it continues to gradually liberalize.

58. What personal heroes exist in history, in the present, and who most influenced you?

Plato, the Buddha, the actual Jesus (not the conventional Christian version), Newton, Galileo, Shakespeare, Mark Twain, Dickens, Thoreau, Emerson, Cyrano de Bergerac, Charles Darwin, Edgar Allan Poe, Baudelaire, Edna St Vincent Millay, Upton Sinclair, John Steinbeck, Will Durant, Max Ernst, Marcel Duchamp, the Futurian science fiction writers (Pohl, Asimov, Knight etc), Richard Matheson, Charles Beaumont, Ray Bradbury, Larry Niven, Alfred Bester, JG Ballard, Harlan Ellison, Frank Herbert, Jack Vance, Jacob Needleman, Krishnamurti, Ramakrishna, GI Gurdjieff, Mick Jagger, Iggy Pop, Lou Reed, Tom Verlaine, Bruce Sterling, Rudy Rucker, Patrick O’Brian, David Bowie, Anne Sexton…I could go on…but I won’t…

59. Any upcoming collaborative projects?

Only in music. New songs with Blue Oyster Cult, new songs of my own with musical partners.

60. Any upcoming solo projects?

The novel Stormland, about a part of the USA in the future that has hurricane level storms 360 days a year, year after year, and the people who somehow are still there…and why they’re there.

61. Any recommended authors?

All the ones I mentioned earlier.

62. For those with an interest in further personal research into you, they can look at the approved personal and professional website: john-shirley.com.[4] Any other suggested resources for related individuals, publications, and general subject matter?

There is also a facebook fan page.

Thank you for your time, Mr. Shirley.

 Bibliography

  1. [Philo Drummond]. (2012, April 23). Sado-Nation with John Shirley. Retrieved from https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6D474FA093259CCF.
  2. [TEDx Talks]. (2011, November 23). TEDxBrussels – John Shirley – False Singularities. Retrieved from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtpX_9E__hU.
  3. Dueben, A. (2012, August 6). John Shirley: The Crow: Death and Rebirth. Retrieved from https://suicidegirls.com/girls/sash/blog/2680449/john-shirley-the-crow-death-and-rebirth/.
  4. Fahey, T.B. (2014, September 2). Piper at the Gates of Hell: An Interview with Cyberpunk Legend John Shirley. Retrieved from http://motherboard.vice.com/read/piper-at-the-gates-of-hell-an-interview-with-cyberpunk-legend-john-shirley.
  5. Jacobsen, S.D. (2014, October 1). Reverend Ivan Stang: Co-Founder & Author, Church of the SubGenius. Retrieved fromhttps://in-sightjournal.com/2014/10/01/reverend-ivan-stang-co-founder-author-church-of-the-subgenius/.
  6. Laurence, A. (1994). An Interview with John Shirley. Retrieved from http://www.altx.com/int2/john.shirley.html.
  7. Reverbnation (n.d.). John Shirley. Retrieved from https://www.reverbnation.com/johnshirley.
  8. Shirley, J. (2014, August 26). A science fiction author ponders the dystopic landscape of the sovereign citizen mind. Retrieved from http://www.rawstory.com/2014/08/john-shirley-on-sovereign-citizens-draft/.
  9. Shirley, J. (2016). Dark Echo. Retrieved from http://www.darkecho.com/.
  10. Shirley, J. (2012, May 11). Tales to Terrify no 18 John Shirley. Retrieved from http://talestoterrify.com/tales-to-terrify-no-18-john-shirley/.
  11. Ventrella, M.A. (2012, June 7). Interview with Bram Stoker Award-winning author John Shirley. Retrieved from http://michaelaventrella.com/2012/06/07/interview-with-bram-stoker-award-winning-author-john-shirley/.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Science Fiction Author and Writer.

[2] Individual Publication Date: October 22, 2016 at www.in-sightjournal.com; Full Issue Publication Date: January 1, 2017 at https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

[3] Photograph courtesy of John Shirley.

[4] Shirley, J. (2016). John Shirley. Retrieved from http://www.john-shirley.com.

Shirley, J. (2016). Contact Information for John Shirley. Retrieved from http://www.darkecho.com/JohnShirley/contact.html.

Appendix II: Citation Style Listing

American Medical Association (AMA): Jacobsen S. An Interview with John Shirley (Part Four) [Online].October 2016; 12(A). Available from: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-john-shirley-part-four.

American Psychological Association (APA, 6th Edition, 2010): Jacobsen, S.D. (2016, October 22). An Interview with John Shirley (Part Four)Retrieved from http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-john-shirley-part-four.

Brazilian National Standards (ABNT): JACOBSEN, S. An Interview with John Shirley (Part Four)In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 12.A, October. 2016. <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-john-shirley-part-four>.

Chicago/Turabian, Author-Date (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott. 2016. “An Interview with John Shirley (Part Four).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 12.A. http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-john-shirley-part-four.

Chicago/Turabian, Humanities (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott “An Interview with John Shirley (Part Four).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 12.A (October 2016). http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-john-shirley-part-four.

Harvard: Jacobsen, S. 2016, ‘An Interview with John Shirley (Part Four)In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 12.A. Available from: <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-john-shirley-part-four>.

Harvard, Australian: Jacobsen, S. 2016, ‘An Interview with John Shirley (Part Four)In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 12.A., http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-john-shirley-part-four.

Modern Language Association (MLA, 7th Edition, 2009): Scott D. Jacobsen. “An Interview with John Shirley (Part Four).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 12.A (2016):October. 2016. Web. <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-john-shirley-part-four>.

Vancouver/ICMJE: Jacobsen S. An Interview with John Shirley (Part Four) [Internet]. (2016, October; 12(A). Available from: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/an-interview-with-john-shirley-part-four.

License and Copyright

License

In-Sight Publishing and In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.
Based on a work at www.in-sightjournal.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen, and In-Sight Publishing and In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 2012-2017. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen, and In-Sight Publishing and In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal with appropriate and specific direction to the original content.  All interviewees co-copyright their interview material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

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