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Conversation with Dong Geon Lee on Living a Life Rightly, Being an Atheist, and IQ Tests: Member, CIVIQ Society (1)

Interviewer: Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Numbering: Issue 26.A, Idea: Outliers & Outsiders (21)

Place of Publication: Langley, British Columbia, Canada

Title: In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Web Domain: http://www.in-sightjournal.com

Individual Publication Date: January 22, 2021

Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021

Name of Publisher: In-Sight Publishing

Frequency: Three Times Per Year

Words: 738

ISSN 2369-6885

Abstract

This is an interview with a member of the high-IQ community in South Korea who wished to remain anonymous. He discusses: growing up; a sense of an extended self; the family background; experience with peers and schoolmates; the purpose of intelligence tests; high intelligence; wide-ranging reactions to geniuses; the greatest geniuses; a genius from a profoundly intelligent person; profound intelligence necessary for genius; the gifted and geniuses; God; science; the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations); the range of the scores; ethical philosophy; social philosophy; economic philosophy; political philosophy; metaphysics; philosophical system; meaning in life; meaning; an afterlife; the mystery and transience of life; and love.

Keywords: atheist, Dong Geon Lee, intelligence, life, love, South Korea.

Conversation with Dong Geon Lee on Living a Life Rightly, Being an Atheist, and IQ Tests: Member, CIVIQ Society (1)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: When you were growing up, what were some of the prominent family stories being told over time?

Dong Geon Lee[1],[2]*: There was nothing like that, and he told me to live the right life rather than just being nice.

Jacobsen: Have these stories helped provide a sense of an extended self or a sense of the family legacy?

Lee: In fact, I’ve come to live the right life, and the people around me are aware of it.

Jacobsen: What was the family background, e.g., geography, culture, language, and religion or lack thereof?

Lee:  I grew up in a religiously free family, and now I am an atheist. Language used my native language, Korean.

Jacobsen: How has the experience with peers and schoolmates been for you?

Lee: About half of my classmates expressed hostility from jealousy to me, and some respected me. However, my close friend and I spent time discussing together.

Jacobsen: What is the purpose of intelligence tests to you?

Lee: At first, I got to know where I am now by IQ test, and now I use it to relieve my mood or to kill time. The IQ test also gave me pride.

Jacobsen: When was high intelligence discovered for you?

Lee: A year after I was born, I knew how to write words. And I started reading books when I was 4 years old, and now I make my own mathematical rules and make physical theories. And it was about a year ago that I found out that I was a high-IQ person.

Jacobsen: What do you think of such wide-ranging reactions to geniuses?

Geon: Unfortunately, I have no idea.

Jacobsen: Who seem like the greatest geniuses in history to you, even today?

Lee: I think Johann Carl Friedrich Gauß is the best genius.

Jacobsen: What differentiates a genius from a profoundly intelligent person?

Lee: I think it is a matter of achievement and popularity. And thinking is also a way to tell them apart.

Jacobsen: Is profound intelligence necessary for genius?

Lee: Not all geniuses are intelligent, but there are many geniuses among those with high intelligence.

Jacobsen: What are some of the more important aspects of the idea of the gifted and geniuses? Those myths that pervade the cultures of the world. What are those myths? What truths dispel them?

Lee: I think the method is a scientific fact. However, if they make people good, that belief is not bad.

Jacobsen: Any thoughts on the God concept or the gods idea and philosophy, theology, and religion?

Lee: Essentially wrong, but as I said earlier, I don’t want to get rid of it to make people good.

Jacobsen: How much does science play into the worldview for you?

Lee: Everything about me is science.

Jacobsen: What have been some of the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations) for you?

Lee: WISC 4 was 150(sd15) FIQURE was 150(sd15), IQhaven test was 166(sd15)

Jacobsen: What is the range of the scores for you? The scores earned on alternative intelligence tests tend to produce a wide smattering of data points rather than clusters, typically.

Geon: The range of the scores is between 147 to 166.

Jacobsen: What ethical philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Lee: I think it is a philosophy of science.

Jacobsen: What social philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Lee: I think science and Buddhism.

Jacobsen: What economic philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Lee: I think it is liberalism.

Jacobsen: What political philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Lee: I think it is social liberalism.

Jacobsen: What metaphysics makes some sense to you, even the most workable sense to you?

Lee: I have no idea.

Jacobsen: What worldview-encompassing philosophical system makes some sense, even th

most workable sense to you?

Lee: I think it is liberalism.

Jacobsen: What provides meaning in life for you?

Lee: Researching about physics and mathematics.

Jacobsen: Is meaning externally derived, internally generated, both, or something else?

Lee: Both.

Jacobsen: Do you believe in an afterlife? If so, why, and what form? If not, why not?

Lee: Nope. It can’t be explained by science.

Jacobsen: What do you make the mystery and transience of life?

Lee: By everything that is good.

Jacobsen: What is love to you?

Lee: It is primitive feeling of everything.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Member, CIVIQ Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: January 22, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/lee-1; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

Appendix II: Citation Style Listing

American Medical Association (AMA): Jacobsen S. Conversation with Dong Geon Lee on Living a Life Rightly, Being an Atheist, and IQ Tests: Member, CIVIQ Society (1) [Online]. January 2021; 26(A). Available from: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/lee-1.

American Psychological Association (APA, 6th Edition, 2010): Jacobsen, S.D. (2021, January 22). Conversation with Dong Geon Lee on Living a Life Rightly, Being an Atheist, and IQ Tests: Member, CIVIQ Society (1). Retrieved from http://www.in-sightjournal.com/lee-1.

Brazilian National Standards (ABNT): JACOBSEN, S. Conversation with Dong Geon Lee on Living a Life Rightly, Being an Atheist, and IQ Tests: Member, CIVIQ Society (1). In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 26.A, January. 2021. <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/lee-1>.

Chicago/Turabian, Author-Date (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott. 2021. Conversation with Dong Geon Lee on Living a Life Rightly, Being an Atheist, and IQ Tests: Member, CIVIQ Society (1).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 26.A. http://www.in-sightjournal.com/lee-1.

Chicago/Turabian, Humanities (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott “Conversation with Dong Geon Lee on Living a Life Rightly, Being an Atheist, and IQ Tests: Member, CIVIQ Society (1).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 26.A (January 2021). http://www.in-sightjournal.com/lee-1.

Harvard: Jacobsen, S. 2021, ‘Conversation with Dong Geon Lee on Living a Life Rightly, Being an Atheist, and IQ Tests: Member, CIVIQ Society (1)’In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 26.A. Available from: <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/lee-1>.

Harvard, Australian: Jacobsen, S. 2021, ‘Conversation with Dong Geon Lee on Living a Life Rightly, Being an Atheist, and IQ Tests: Member, CIVIQ Society (1)’In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 26.A., http://www.in-sightjournal.com/lee-1.

Modern Language Association (MLA, 7th Edition, 2009): Scott D. Jacobsen. “Conversation with Dong Geon Lee on Living a Life Rightly, Being an Atheist, and IQ Tests: Member, CIVIQ Society (1).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 26.A (2021): January. 2021. Web. <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/lee-1>.

Vancouver/ICMJE: Jacobsen S. Conversation with Dong Geon Lee on Living a Life Rightly, Being an Atheist, and IQ Tests: Member, CIVIQ Society (1) [Internet]. (2021, January 26(A). Available from: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/lee-1.

License and Copyright

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.
Based on a work at www.in-sightjournal.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-2021. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen, and In-Sight Publishing and In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Anonymous High-IQ Community Member (South Korea) on Background, Family, South Korea, WAIS-IV, and Inflated Tests: Member, South Korean High-IQ Community

Interviewer: Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Numbering: Issue 26.A, Idea: Outliers & Outsiders (21)

Place of Publication: Langley, British Columbia, Canada

Title: In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Web Domain: http://www.in-sightjournal.com

Individual Publication Date: January 22, 2021

Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021

Name of Publisher: In-Sight Publishing

Frequency: Three Times Per Year

Words: 1,293

ISSN 2369-6885

Abstract

This is an interview with a member of the high-IQ community in South Korea who wished to remain anonymous. They discuss: family stories; an extended self; the family background; experience with peers and schoolmates; some professional certifications; purpose of intelligence tests; high intelligence; the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses; the greatest geniuses in history; a genius from a profoundly intelligent person; genius; the gifted and geniuses; God; science; the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations); the range of the scores; an afterlife; life; and love.

Keywords: intelligence, IQ, South Korea, WAIS-IV.

Conversation with Anonymous High-IQ Community Member (South Korea) on Background, Family, South Korea, WAIS-IV, and Inflated Tests: Member, South Korean High-IQ Community

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: When you were growing up, what were some of the prominent family stories being told over time?

Anonymous High-IQ Community Member (South Korea): I’ve not heard many mythical stories from my family tree, but there are some recent stories from my parental side. A realistic anecdote would be about my father. Raised in the countryside helping family agriculture, my father’s Weschler test score was around 138 with a perfect working memory score. For a mythical story, I’ve heard that parental grandmother verbally memorized Chinese Thousand Character Classic at age 2, just by growing up near the school studying this book.

Jacobsen: Have these stories helped provide a sense of an extended self or a sense of the family legacy?

Anonymous High-IQ Community Member (South Korea): Probably. I believe working memory functions heavily rely on one’s condition and concentration skill which can be acquired and trained. If there’s something I’m heir to, it must be a tiny portion of focusing ability and rest of good environment, including socioeconomic status, education, and nutrition.

Jacobsen: What was the family background, e.g., geography, culture, language, and religion or lack thereof?

Anonymous High-IQ Community Member (South Korea): Korean is my native tongue, and I’ve learned English by shortly going abroad between 7 to 8 years old. Anything else will be that of a typical Korean. From Confucianism based courtesies, Abrahamic religion education, ending up as an atheist.

Jacobsen: How was the experience with peers and schoolmates as a child and an adolescent?

Anonymous High-IQ Community Member (South Korea): In elementary and middle school, I was just a model student with good grades. I was very talkative and enjoyed participating as a class leader throughout the grades. In high school, I’ve attended a specialized high school, and it was a great experience to meet and experience new groups of people—specifically elites.

Jacobsen: What have been some professional certifications, qualifications, and trainings earned by you?

Anonymous High-IQ Community Member (South Korea): The answer might point to very specific individuals, so I’ll be vague. I’m a college student, and newcomers’ careers aren’t interesting. But if including academic achievements, insignificant but the best of students, it’ll be scoring high rank for a major International Olympiad.

Jacobsen: What is the purpose of intelligence tests to you?

Anonymous High-IQ Community Member (South Korea): The Purpose would be mostly diagnosing or treating mental defects, acknowledging oneself better from this precise scientific tool, or maybe for finding gifted children. I’m only talking about Weschler or other standardized tests. The wide range of field the test measures, revised by research evidence and mechanisms, and its broad usages appear useful. And I think other high-range or online tests, or even extended Weschler tests and norms, are just puzzles.

Jacobsen: When was high intelligence discovered for you?

Anonymous High-IQ Community Member (South Korea): I don’t think there are any fundamental differences between people while high intelligence is classified. At least for me, I’m just a well-grown, well-educated ordinary person with a bit fair task commitment and efficiency. I often refer to the fact that heritability of IQ increases throughout the lifetime—snowball effect. Even though I can’t affirm any word with all of complex multi-variable entangled, one’s environment and his preference to choose and modify the environment via self-feedback seem very crucial.

Jacobsen: When you think of the ways in which the geniuses of the past have either been mocked, vilified, and condemned if not killed, or praised, flattered, platformed, and revered, what seems like the reason for the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses? Many alive today seem camera shy – many, not all.

Anonymous High-IQ Community Member (South Korea): Well, I lack knowledge of related topics or examples. But from the perspective that friendship often comes from sharing experiences, actions, cultures, and even consensus of thinking, some geniuses with bizarre interests, behaviours, and different ways of thinking would’ve triggered some rejection from others.

Jacobsen: Who seem like the greatest geniuses in history to you?

Anonymous High-IQ Community Member (South Korea): I don’t have the knowledge to understand their achievements.

Jacobsen: What differentiates a genius from a profoundly intelligent person?

Anonymous High-IQ Community Member (South Korea): Just approaching on the surface, genius is named only when they’re remembered. So, I think both everlasting achievements or profound intelligence can be genius. But then there are too many intelligent people to be recognized, and this might be my misunderstanding, but extreme intelligence seems to end up function/subject-specific, while extreme skills are acquirable through extreme training!

The answer went out of track, but an extreme IQ score might be an exaggerated concept. Firstly, any extended norms of standardized tests are based on extrapolation. Even the proper norm is based on a few thousand people, but extrapolated norms reach the one-in-billion level. Regarding digit span, let’s assume that the normal distribution of a thousand men resulted in 72. But we cannot reason that scoring 17 will be 5-sigma above the average from this result. A long-or-short tail will affect the numbers significantly. Secondly, as mentioned, training. Studying mnemonics, anyone can memorize 40 or more digits which is far above average. Thus, the very closely packed human ability is sliced microscopically, and only close observation near average is useful. Elephant heights can’t be classified by human height indexes. Also, lining up every result as a single standard blurs the point.

Jacobsen: Is profound intelligence necessary for genius?

Anonymous High-IQ Community Member (South Korea): Maybe there will be many counterexamples.

Jacobsen: What are some of the more important aspects of the idea of the gifted and geniuses? Those myths that pervade the cultures of the world. What are those myths? What truths dispel them?

Anonymous High-IQ Community Member (South Korea): Maybe confusing some of the traits from Asperger syndrome. Media might have influenced them, but most people don’t have the chance to actually contact geniuses. This also applies to me. I have no answer to dispel these myths. There might be some researches that studied the correlation between behaviors.

Jacobsen: Any thoughts on the God concept or gods idea and philosophy, theology, and religion?

Anonymous High-IQ Community Member (South Korea): I don’t know. I don’t believe in a personal god, but I’ve also never thought about it seriously.

Jacobsen: How much does science play into the worldview for you?

Anonymous High-IQ Community Member (South Korea): I’ve learned the scientific method of analyzing which acts as my standard to avoid fallacies at my best.

Jacobsen: What have been some of the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations) for you?

Anonymous High-IQ Community Member (South Korea): WAIS-IV 150. For online tests, the highest score was SLSE-I 39/50, and some scores were 160s. (all in sd 15).

Jacobsen: What is the range of the scores for you? The scores earned on alternative intelligence tests tend to produce a wide smattering of data points rather than clusters, typically.

Anonymous High-IQ Community Member (South Korea): I might only have taken inflated tests, but a few tests were around 160 sd15. The most inflated score would be Fiqure, with a similar result when I was 13. Some scores were around 140s, including school group intelligence test. It was a timed multiple-choice exam, and Processing Speed is my weakness.

Jacobsen: Do you believe in an afterlife? If so, why, and what form? If not, why not?

Anonymous High-IQ Community Member (South Korea): No. I’m waiting for the proof. It’ll be proved when GAI is developed, better proof with emotions.

Jacobsen: What do you make of the mystery and transience of life?

Anonymous High-IQ Community Member (South Korea): I don’t use English as my first language, so I can’t answer a metaphysical question in English!

Jacobsen: What is love to you? 

Anonymous High-IQ Community Member (South Korea): I don’t know.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Member, South Korean High-IQ Community.

[2] Individual Publication Date: January 22, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/south-korea; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

Appendix II: Citation Style Listing

American Medical Association (AMA): Jacobsen S. Conversation with Anonymous High-IQ Community Member (South Korea) on Background, Family, South Korea, WAIS-IV, and Inflated Tests: Member, South Korean High-IQ Community [Online]. January 2021; 26(A). Available from: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/south-korea.

American Psychological Association (APA, 6th Edition, 2010): Jacobsen, S.D. (2021, January 22). Conversation with Anonymous High-IQ Community Member (South Korea) on Background, Family, South Korea, WAIS-IV, and Inflated Tests: Member, South Korean High-IQ Community. Retrieved from http://www.in-sightjournal.com/south-korea.

Brazilian National Standards (ABNT): JACOBSEN, S. Conversation with Anonymous High-IQ Community Member (South Korea) on Background, Family, South Korea, WAIS-IV, and Inflated Tests: Member, South Korean High-IQ Community. In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 26.A, January. 2021. <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/south-korea>.

Chicago/Turabian, Author-Date (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott. 2021. Conversation with Anonymous High-IQ Community Member (South Korea) on Background, Family, South Korea, WAIS-IV, and Inflated Tests: Member, South Korean High-IQ Community.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 26.A. http://www.in-sightjournal.com/south-korea.

Chicago/Turabian, Humanities (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott “Conversation with Anonymous High-IQ Community Member (South Korea) on Background, Family, South Korea, WAIS-IV, and Inflated Tests: Member, South Korean High-IQ Community.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 26.A (January 2021). http://www.in-sightjournal.com/south-korea.

Harvard: Jacobsen, S. 2021, ‘Conversation with Anonymous High-IQ Community Member (South Korea) on Background, Family, South Korea, WAIS-IV, and Inflated Tests: Member, South Korean High-IQ Community’In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 26.A. Available from: <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/south-korea>.

Harvard, Australian: Jacobsen, S. 2021, ‘Conversation with Anonymous High-IQ Community Member (South Korea) on Background, Family, South Korea, WAIS-IV, and Inflated Tests: Member, South Korean High-IQ Community’In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 26.A., http://www.in-sightjournal.com/south-korea.

Modern Language Association (MLA, 7th Edition, 2009): Scott D. Jacobsen. “Conversation with Anonymous High-IQ Community Member (South Korea) on Background, Family, South Korea, WAIS-IV, and Inflated Tests: Member, South Korean High-IQ Community.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 26.A (2021): January. 2021. Web. <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/south-korea>.

Vancouver/ICMJE: Jacobsen S. Conversation with Anonymous High-IQ Community Member (South Korea) on Background, Family, South Korea, WAIS-IV, and Inflated Tests: Member, South Korean High-IQ Community [Internet]. (2021, January 26(A). Available from: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/south-korea.

License and Copyright

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.
Based on a work at www.in-sightjournal.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-2021. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen, and In-Sight Publishing and In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Christopher Harding on Genius as Individualistic, God as the Universe or Non-Existent, Science’s Despoilment, Feynman, and the Quantum: Founder, International Society for Philosophical Enquiry (2)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interviewer: Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Numbering: Issue 26.A, Idea: Outliers & Outsiders (21)

Place of Publication: Langley, British Columbia, Canada

Title: In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Web Domain: http://www.in-sightjournal.com

Individual Publication Date: January 15, 2021

Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021

Name of Publisher: In-Sight Publishing

Frequency: Three Times Per Year

Words: 1,079

ISSN 2369-6885

Abstract

Christopher Harding is the Founder of the International Society for Philosophical Enquiry (ISPE), and a Member of OlympIQ Society and the ESOTERIQ Society. He was born on August 4, 1944 in Clovelly Private Nursing Home at Keynsham, Somerset, English, United Kingdom. He has never married. He arrived in Rockhampton, Queensland, Australia, in the morning of October 11, 1952. He remains there to this day. He has held memberships with the Eugenics Society (1963-1964), the British Astronomical Association (1964-1969), the International Heuristic Association (1970-1974), the Triple Nine Society (1979-1990 & 1992-1995), the 606 Society (1981-1982), the Omega Society (1983-1991), the Prometheus Society (1984-1990), the International Biographical Association (1985-1990), Geniuses of Distinction Society (1986-1988), the American Biographical Institute Research Association (1986-1990), the Cincinnatus Society (1987-1990), the 4 Sigma Group of Societies [incorporating all groups having 4 Sigma plus cut off points ] (1988-1990), The Minerva Society [Formerly the Phoenix Society] (1988-1990), The Confederation of Chivalry (1988-1990), the Planetary Society (1989-1990), Maison Internationale des Intellectuels [M.I.D.I.] (1989-1990), TOPS HIQ Society (1989-1990), the Cleo Society (1990-1991), the Camelopard Society (1991-1992), the Hoeflin One-in-a-Thousand Society (1992-1993), the Pi Society (also like the Mega Society for persons with 1 in one million I.Q. level (5th April 2001 – 2002), INTERTEL [The International Legion of Intelligence] (June 1971-March 2010), The Hundred (1972-1977), the New Zealand National Mensa (1980-1982), and the Single Gourmet (1989-1991), among numerous other memberships, awards, and achievements. For the most recent or up-to-date information, please see the ESOTERIQ Society listing: https://esoteriqsociety.com/esotericists/esoteriq-id06/. He discusses: He discusses: National Enquirer; the gap between cognitive abilities and record of employment; living situation without a record of work; alone; the professionals test someone just shy of 1-year-old; parents react to being called “liars to their faces”; genius; intelligence tests; publications or periodicals; artificial constructs; the factors making genius; God as human idealism; the Concept of God; science; the areas most affected by this despoilment; the areas least affected by this despoilment; 6-sigma; the ESOTERIQ Society; conclusions; and the information in Quantum Physics.

Keywords: Christopher Harding, Feynman, genius, God, individualistic, International Society for Philosophical Enquiry, science, Quantum.

Conversation with Christopher Harding on Genius as Individualistic, God as the Universe or Non-Existent, Science’s Despoilment, Feynman, and the Quantum: Founder, International Society for Philosophical Enquiry (2)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: What Royal Houses were the main connections with family?

Chris Harding: Most prominent – French side.

Jacobsen: In the National Enquirer published on June 25, 1991, there was an article about a certain man with the “world’s highest IQ” who is a “jobless janitor.” What did this particular media attention do for you?

Harding: Nothing.

Jacobsen: I state the caveat of “absolutely nothing at all” as the response to the work experiences question. It is reported that you have worked in menial jobs and had stretches of unemployment, e.g., in the National Enquirer. What explains the gap between the cognitive abilities and the cognitive demands of the jobs for you? Alternatively, what explains the gap between cognitive abilities and record of employment for you?

Harding: Unknown.

Jacobsen: How did you sustain yourself in terms of living situation without a record of work?

Harding: Family.

Jacobsen: Why the “non-existent” life with peers and schoolmates? Did you feel alone?

Harding: Violence and exclusion.

Jacobsen: How did the professionals test someone just shy of 1-year-old? It seems odd, even stranger than the 2-and-a-half-year-old, or thereabouts, cases entering Mensa International (or their national group).

Harding: Mental age in my case 3 years 4 months made that easy!

Jacobsen: How did your parents react to being called “liars to their faces” when ‘speaking of you’?

Harding: They were taken aback by this.

Jacobsen: Does this desire of cultures wanting genius while not wanting the genius create a toxic dichotomy in the general culture? Something to which only lip service is paid, while wanting to kill in former times, and ‘kill’ in modern times, the genius.

Harding: It comes from competitiveness [jack is equal to his master]. In many cultures submissiveness is considered politeness. That is considered standard in communication. It is why first world cultures see themselves as superior.  

Jacobsen: As these intelligence tests have been a part of life before even 1-year-old, may I ask, what has been the life lesson from them for you?

Harding: Look, people see I.Q.’s as not valid above their own. Everybody does this. It is very noticeable that children asked who in their class is smartest will name themselves! 

Jacobsen: As you recalled the quote from the Journal of the British Eugenics Society, I’m sure many will be interested now. What publications or periodicals do you continue to read now? What ones did you previously read and no longer do so?

Harding: No preference; I am a total generalist.

Jacobsen: With Leonardo da Vinci as “a Master Genius in an age of Genius,” do you think artificial constructs could fill the gap between genius seen before and unseen genius now, i.e., artificial constructs with the capabilities of the highest human genius?

Harding: They have provided little evidence they are going to solve this one: My Mother once said the process was ‘ant like’ rather than a G-function.

Jacobsen: What are the factors making genius “creative ability of the highest possible kind”? Other than the qualities inherent in ‘marching to the beat of their own drum.’

Harding: Genius by definition would be individualistic. As one person said to me, I was very `singular’.

Jacobsen: If “God is purely human idealism; largely what you can’t attain,” what are some exceptions to this thing one “largely… can’t attain” or the things attainable within this definition of God as human idealism?

Harding: What I meant was the problem lay beyond the nature of logical process. It is answerable in terms of the proof of the last theory of sets. But you still get back to the conclusion that if God exists he either is the Universe or does not exist.

You are still dealing with value judgments or in assigning names; which amounts to the same thing. My Brother agreed with me that the highest form of reasoning was EVALUATION. Since to invoke reason one must first evaluate a proposition.

Jacobsen: Is the setting of the “Concept… beyond what can be considered” a defense against formal knockdown critique of the Concept of God?

Harding: No.

Jacobsen: When did science begin this despoilment with the obsession with “consensus and ignorance”?

Harding: Always was there. In our own time many people use science to moralize, and science has become the new religion. This can’t be done of course. There is no bridge either between philosophy and religion.

Jacobsen: What are the areas most affected by this despoilment?

Harding: It is seen in notions of anthropomorphism with regard to climate change. Not so! The real cause is the Sun. Note, Astronomers had long ago pinned this down to Sun Spot Cycles. A new 11+ year Cycle began last year and rising temperatures have turned back. One Russian Woman Scientist predicts the onset of a period of dropping temperatures starting around 2030, though this figure is very uncertain!

Jacobsen: What are the areas least affected by this despoilment?

Harding: Human aging and Quantum Physics–much progress continues at the moment.

Jacobsen: What were the tests when scoring above 6-sigma several times?

Harding: Most of these I have forgotten. I’m 76 and most were over 30, 40 and up to over 75 years ago!

Jacobsen: For the ESOTERIQ Society, it states, “Christopher Harding (Australia): 197 on SBIS-Oxford-Analysis-New-Zealand in 1976.” What is the full name of the SBIS-Oxford-Analysis-New-Zealand, particularly the “SBIS” part?

Harding: Don’t know.

Jacobsen: While, fundamentally, dispensing with ethical philosophy, social philosophy, economic philosophy, political philosophy, and metaphysics, even philosophy as “word juggling” (!), I see some common points. One is science, though “less and less” with its despoilment, meaning as a “PATTERN” made by each person individually, an emphasis on some of Freud, “QUANTUM PHYSICS” in terms of “truth” with its preservation of information (neither gained nor lost), and the bounded nature of nature (including humans) as “a condition of being defined.” So, there is a there there. I have to ask, “What makes these conclusions more sound, at this time, to you than other possibilities?

Harding: Feynman once said no one understands the Quantum. And yet to further agree with his point “Quantum Superiority” has been proved for the D-Wave Orion Computer. I liken this to statements about the Aleph series in the mathematics of infinity theory.

Jacobsen: Any speculation as to why the information in Quantum Physics simply “IS”?

Harding: I once thought it through and concluded there was another stage beyond Quantum Physics. Simply IS would represent in turn a `single one’ off any general group of abstractions.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Founder, International Society for Philosophical Enquiry.

[2] Individual Publication Date: January 15, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/harding-2; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

Appendix II: Citation Style Listing

American Medical Association (AMA): Jacobsen S. Conversation with Christopher Harding on Genius as Individualistic, God as the Universe or Non-Existent, Science’s Despoilment, Feynman, and the Quantum: Founder, International Society for Philosophical Enquiry (2) [Online]. January 2021; 26(A). Available from: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/harding-2.

American Psychological Association (APA, 6th Edition, 2010): Jacobsen, S.D. (2021, January 15). Conversation with Christopher Harding on Genius as Individualistic, God as the Universe or Non-Existent, Science’s Despoilment, Feynman, and the Quantum: Founder, International Society for Philosophical Enquiry (2). Retrieved from http://www.in-sightjournal.com/harding-2.

Brazilian National Standards (ABNT): JACOBSEN, S. Conversation with Christopher Harding on Genius as Individualistic, God as the Universe or Non-Existent, Science’s Despoilment, Feynman, and the Quantum: Founder, International Society for Philosophical Enquiry (2). In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 26.A, January. 2021. <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/harding-2>.

Chicago/Turabian, Author-Date (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott. 2021. Conversation with Christopher Harding on Genius as Individualistic, God as the Universe or Non-Existent, Science’s Despoilment, Feynman, and the Quantum: Founder, International Society for Philosophical Enquiry (2).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 26.A. http://www.in-sightjournal.com/harding-2.

Chicago/Turabian, Humanities (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott ”Conversation with Christopher Harding on Genius as Individualistic, God as the Universe or Non-Existent, Science’s Despoilment, Feynman, and the Quantum: Founder, International Society for Philosophical Enquiry (2).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 26.A (January 2021). http://www.in-sightjournal.com/harding-2.

Harvard: Jacobsen, S. 2021, ‘Conversation with Christopher Harding on Genius as Individualistic, God as the Universe or Non-Existent, Science’s Despoilment, Feynman, and the Quantum: Founder, International Society for Philosophical Enquiry (2)’In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 26.A. Available from: <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/harding-2>.

Harvard, Australian: Jacobsen, S. 2021, ‘Conversation with Christopher Harding on Genius as Individualistic, God as the Universe or Non-Existent, Science’s Despoilment, Feynman, and the Quantum: Founder, International Society for Philosophical Enquiry (2)’In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 26.A., http://www.in-sightjournal.com/harding-2.

Modern Language Association (MLA, 7th Edition, 2009): Scott D. Jacobsen. “Conversation with Christopher Harding on Genius as Individualistic, God as the Universe or Non-Existent, Science’s Despoilment, Feynman, and the Quantum: Founder, International Society for Philosophical Enquiry (2).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 26.A (2021): January. 2021. Web. <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/harding-2>.

Vancouver/ICMJE: Jacobsen S. Conversation with Christopher Harding on Genius as Individualistic, God as the Universe or Non-Existent, Science’s Despoilment, Feynman, and the Quantum: Founder, International Society for Philosophical Enquiry (2) [Internet]. (2021, January 26(A). Available from: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/harding-2.

License and Copyright

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.
Based on a work at www.in-sightjournal.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-2021. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen, and In-Sight Publishing and In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Mr. Sudarshan Murthy on Growing Up, Ayurveda, Supreme Intelligence as God, and the Afterlife: Member, World Genius Directory (1)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interviewer: Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Numbering: Issue 26.A, Idea: Outliers & Outsiders (21)

Place of Publication: Langley, British Columbia, Canada

Title: In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Web Domain: http://www.in-sightjournal.com

Individual Publication Date: January 15, 2021

Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021

Name of Publisher: In-Sight Publishing

Frequency: Three Times Per Year

Words: 1,727

ISSN 2369-6885

Abstract

Mr. Sudarshan Murthy is a Member of the World Genius Directory. He self-describes as follows: “My name is Sudarshan Murthy. I am 41 years old male from Bangalore, India. I have studied Master of Pharmacy and working in the research and development of Nutrition Products for general wellness and disease-specific products. I am a creative individual and published research papers in journals and also published books on appropriate strategies for curing acidity and ulcers of the stomach and intestine. I have developed a product called Glucovita Bolts which is a chewable tablet of Glucose and Vitamins and Minerals for energy and reduction of fatigue. This product can be taken by individuals who suffer from chronic fatigue. My hobbies are numismatics, philately and travelling. My interests are astronomy, reading books, solving IQ tests, understanding the secrets of ancient knowledge particularly Indian Vedas which I believe is a storehouse of profound knowledge on various aspects of life and the cosmos.” He discusses: growing up; a sense of an extended self; the family background; the experience with peers and schoolmates; some professional certifications; the purpose of intelligence tests; high intelligence discovered; the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses; the greatest geniuses in history; a genius from a profoundly intelligent person; profound intelligence necessary for genius; work experiences and jobs; particular job path; the gifted and geniuses; God; science; the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations); the range of the scores; ethical philosophy; social philosophy; economic philosophy; political philosophy; metaphysics; philosophical system; meaning in life; meaning externally derived, internally generated; an afterlife; the mystery and transience of life; and love.

Keywords: Ayurveda, genius, India, intelligence, IQ, Sudarshan Murthy, World Genius Directory.

Conversation with Mr. Sudarshan Murthy on Growing Up, Ayurveda, Supreme Intelligence as God, and the Afterlife: Member, World Genius Directory (1)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: When you were growing up, what were some of the prominent family stories being told over time?

Mr. Sudarshan Murthy[1],[2]*: My Grandfather was an orphan and illiterate. He married in a village. He was not having any formal college education but he studied the Ayurvedic Textbook by himself. He designed and formulated medicines based upon the understanding of the ayurvedic textbooks. He developed many medicines all by himself without going to any medical school. He carried out his own clinical trial experiments and gave them to patients. The results were successful. He was awarded “Bhishak Bhushan,” the highest medicine award by King of Mysore for excellence in the field of medicine.

Jacobsen: Have these stories helped provide a sense of an extended self or a sense of the family legacy?

Murthy: I feel that my grandfather was a born genius and some of his intelligence I have also acquired and of course his temper of course.

Jacobsen: What was the family background, e.g., geography, culture, language, and religion or lack thereof?

Murthy: My grandfather had eight children: four sons and four daughters. My father is the youngest son and was an electrical engineer. My mother was a housewife. We are two children, a son and a daughter. My sister is a doctor, married to a doctor and settled in Australia. She is an orthopedic surgeon. We stayed in India during our education in a different state. This enabled us to adjust to other cultures right from our childhood. However, we missed the long term relationship with our close relatives as we were in a different state.

Jacobsen: How was the experience with peers and schoolmates as a child and an adolescent?

Murthy: Since we were in a different state and away from our parents during formative years of education we found it somewhat difficult to adjust and study. May that reflected in somewhat lower scores in education. But we developed a good friendship with some people. But I became very reserved for the fear of being judged negatively and went into depression as we were made fun of. I felt I am an odd man out in a strange environment.

Jacobsen: What have been some professional certifications, qualifications, and training earned by you?

Murthy: Professional qualifications:

Master of Pharmacy, Master of Business Administration in Human Resource Development;

Professional Certifications:

– Food and Nutrition, Writing in Sciences and Design and Interpretation of clinical trials.

Jacobsen: What is the purpose of intelligence tests to you?

Murthy: Intelligence tests help to discover the innate ingenuity present in an individual of which he/she may be unaware of. This can help as a motivation to tap the potential of ingenious people to work for the greater good of humanity.

Jacobsen: When was high intelligence discovered for you?

Murthy: I developed an interest in intelligence since my school days when I used to solve brain teasers and play games like crosswords and Sudoku. However, it was in the year 2010 when I first searched on google for high intelligence quotient tests and found the Mysterium Society entrance exam. I gave the exam and scored at 99th-percentile and got admitted to Mysterium Society. Thereafter I found many IQ tests and societies on the internet and kept myself a hobby of solving IQ tests and getting admitted to different societies.

Jacobsen: When you think of the ways in which the geniuses of the past have either been mocked, vilified, and condemned if not killed, or praised, flattered, platformed, and revered, what seems like the reason for the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses? Many alive today seem camera shy – many, not all.

Murthy: I think the problem with nature is that it sometimes creates misfits. Intelligent people are far ahead of time in their minds. This makes them appear odd to others because others can’t think like them, i.e., far ahead of time. They perceive these people to be a threat to society and their own position. Also, jealousy plays a role in the mistreatment of geniuses. I don’t think the geniuses are shy but they know that their ideas cannot be understood by others. That’s why they keep away from others in their own world of thinking. They avoid distractions because intelligence requires concentration.

Jacobsen: Who seems like the greatest geniuses in history to you?

Murthy: There are many geniuses, some are recognized by the world like Newton, Einstein, Leonardo Da Vinci while many of them still not recognized like sages of India such as Sushrutha, Bhaskaracharya, etc., who are geniuses.

Jacobsen: What differentiates a genius from a profoundly intelligent person?

Murthy: I believe that ingenuity is an innate quality of deep observation and application of ideas that originates from the mind of a genius while a profoundly intelligent person knows a unique way of applying the worldly knowledge which is already there and known.

Jacobsen: Is profound intelligence necessary for genius?

Murthy: As discussed in the above question, profound intelligence is not necessary for a genius.

Jacobsen: What have been some work experiences and jobs held by you?

Murthy: I was and am working in the research and development of various medical and nutrition products in the healthcare industry.

Jacobsen: Why pursue this particular job path?

Murthy: Because this path involves developing original concepts from nothing. This creates a sense of achievement for me.

Jacobsen: Any thoughts on the God concept or gods idea and philosophy, theology, and religion?

Murthy: If we think and observe deeply the universe in which we are we find some kind of control on the processes happening out everywhere. New stars are born, black hole destroys the galaxy, most of the objects are in the form of a sphere and why they are rotating, the existence of gravitational force we find that such order cannot happen on its own. There is some intelligence that is doing this and we call this intelligence as God. Different religions call this supreme intelligence as God.

Jacobsen: How much does science play into the worldview for you?

Murthy: Science is everywhere in this world. We know very little of the science. Everything is based on scientific phenomenon many discovered and many unknown (yet to be discovered).

Jacobsen: What have been some of the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations) for you?

Murthy: Attached scores on some of the tests. My IQ scores range about 150 with a standard deviation of 15.

Jacobsen: What is the range of the scores for you? The scores earned on alternative intelligence tests tend to produce a wide smattering of data points rather than clusters, typically.

Murthy: 145-160 IQ.

Jacobsen: What ethical philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Murthy: I believe in rule utilitarianism.

Jacobsen: What social philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Murthy: I believe in situational ethics because every situation is different and so cannot be based on absolute moral principles. Each new social situation has to be dealt with based on the context of the act when viewing it from a social ethics perspective.

Jacobsen: What economic philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Murthy: Any economic activity which makes the greater good for humanity and not mere exploitation for gaining profit is my philosophy. I still believe in the old barter system where the abundant things were exchanged among the people rather than money transactions of today. This artificial money is responsible for world wars and exploitation. However, in the current scenario capitalism to some extent is more beneficial than communism because economic activity is based on a desire for profit, but should not lead to the exploitation of the masses.

Jacobsen: What political philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Murthy: Political systems should ideally be made to ensure harmony in society and ensure that there is no exploitation of people. The political systems should be able to create discipline in the society, an order in the society and fair and equal distribution of resources. The political systems should ensure there is no crime or corruption and harassment of the masses. Political philosophy should be above the religion or the beliefs of people.

Jacobsen: What metaphysics makes some sense to you, even the most workable sense to you?

Murthy: I personally believe what is present is in three forms:

-physical, mental (and emotional/perception), and spiritual.

Jacobsen: What worldview-encompassing philosophical system makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Murthy: The philosophical system based on benefit for all, equal and fair distribution of resources and no exploitation of anyone makes sense to me. The system should also ensure the absence of crime, corruption and appropriate punishment for wrong people makes sense. This can happen only when there is an open-mindedness and sharing attitude among the masses and no religious beliefs or biases of any kind.

Jacobsen: What provides meaning in life for you?

Murthy: Identifying, meeting and living a life filled with a purpose provides meaning to life.

Jacobsen: Is meaning externally derived, internally generated, both, or something else?

Murthy: Life meaning is derived from internal motivation based on the observation and perception of the world around us.

Jacobsen: Do you believe in an afterlife? If so, why, and what form? If not, why not?

Murthy: Yes, I believe in an afterlife. Because believing in the afterlife makes a person behave responsibly and in a sober way. Indian karma theory is based on this. Whatever action we do has an appropriate reaction. We all have descended here because of our karma or the deeds which we have done in our previous life. Many Indian sages have been telling us that soul is eternal and we take the body in this life based on our previous deeds. If our deeds are pure we may go higher dimensions and misdeeds may take us to lower dimensions.

Jacobsen: What do you make the mystery and transience of life?

Murthy: Mystery of life makes it interesting. The transience of life makes one live life fully without any attachments to worldly things. We are stressed because of attachments to worldly things thinking it is permanent. Once we know these are temporary we don’t feel the stress and enjoy the journey of life.

Jacobsen: What is love to you? 

Murthy: Love is a part of life that is needed for our wellbeing and to create harmony and peace in the entire world.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Member, World Genius Directory.

[2] Individual Publication Date: January 15, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/murthy-1; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

Appendix II: Citation Style Listing

American Medical Association (AMA): Jacobsen S. Conversation with Mr. Sudarshan Murthy on Growing Up, Ayurveda, Supreme Intelligence as God, and the Afterlife: Member, World Genius Directory (1) [Online]. January 2021; 26(A). Available from: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/murthy-1.

American Psychological Association (APA, 6th Edition, 2010): Jacobsen, S.D. (2021, January 15). Conversation with Mr. Sudarshan Murthy on Growing Up, Ayurveda, Supreme Intelligence as God, and the Afterlife: Member, World Genius Directory (1). Retrieved from http://www.in-sightjournal.com/murthy-1.

Brazilian National Standards (ABNT): JACOBSEN, S. Conversation with Mr. Sudarshan Murthy on Growing Up, Ayurveda, Supreme Intelligence as God, and the Afterlife: Member, World Genius Directory (1). In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 26.A, January. 2021. <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/murthy-1>.

Chicago/Turabian, Author-Date (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott. 2021. Conversation with Mr. Sudarshan Murthy on Growing Up, Ayurveda, Supreme Intelligence as God, and the Afterlife: Member, World Genius Directory (1).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 26.A. http://www.in-sightjournal.com/murthy-1.

Chicago/Turabian, Humanities (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott “Conversation with Mr. Sudarshan Murthy on Growing Up, Ayurveda, Supreme Intelligence as God, and the Afterlife: Member, World Genius Directory (1).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 26.A (January 2021). http://www.in-sightjournal.com/murthy-1.

Harvard: Jacobsen, S. 2021, ‘Conversation with Mr. Sudarshan Murthy on Growing Up, Ayurveda, Supreme Intelligence as God, and the Afterlife: Member, World Genius Directory (1)’In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 26.A. Available from: <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/murthy-1>.

Harvard, Australian: Jacobsen, S. 2021, ‘Conversation with Mr. Sudarshan Murthy on Growing Up, Ayurveda, Supreme Intelligence as God, and the Afterlife: Member, World Genius Directory (1)’In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 26.A., http://www.in-sightjournal.com/murthy-1.

Modern Language Association (MLA, 7th Edition, 2009): Scott D. Jacobsen. “Conversation with Mr. Sudarshan Murthy on Growing Up, Ayurveda, Supreme Intelligence as God, and the Afterlife: Member, World Genius Directory (1).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 26.A (2021): January. 2021. Web. <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/murthy-1>.

Vancouver/ICMJE: Jacobsen S. Conversation with Mr. Sudarshan Murthy on Growing Up, Ayurveda, Supreme Intelligence as God, and the Afterlife: Member, World Genius Directory (1) [Internet]. (2021, January 26(A). Available from: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/murthy-1.

License and Copyright

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.
Based on a work at www.in-sightjournal.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-2021. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen, and In-Sight Publishing and In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Antjuan Finch on Life, Love, Work, Background, and Writings: Member, CIVIQ Society (1)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interviewer: Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Numbering: Issue 26.A, Idea: Outliers & Outsiders (21)

Place of Publication: Langley, British Columbia, Canada

Title: In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Web Domain: http://www.in-sightjournal.com

Individual Publication Date: January 15, 2021

Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021

Name of Publisher: In-Sight Publishing

Frequency: Three Times Per Year

Words: 2,530

ISSN 2369-6885

Abstract

Antjuan Finch is the Author of After Genius: On Creativity and Its Consequences, The 3 Sides of Man, and Applied Theory. He created the Creative Attitudes Inventory (CAT) and the Public Domain Intelligence Test (PDIT). He discusses: growing up; a sense of an extended self; the family background; the experience with peers and schoolmates; some professional certifications; the purpose of intelligence tests; high intelligence discovered; the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses; the greatest geniuses in history; a genius from a profoundly intelligent person; profound intelligence necessary for genius; work experiences and jobs; particular job path; the gifted and geniuses; God; science; the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations); the range of the scores; ethical philosophy; social philosophy; economic philosophy; political philosophy; metaphysics; philosophical system; meaning in life; meaning externally derived, internally generated; an afterlife; the mystery and transience of life; and love.

Keywords: Antjuan Finch, author, CIVIQ Society, Creative Attitudes Inventory, creativity, genius, Harvard University, intelligence, IQ.

Conversation with Antjuan Finch on Life, Love, Work, Background, and Writings: Member, CIVIQ Society (1)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: When you were growing up, what were some of the prominent family stories being told over time?

Antjuan Finch[1],[2]*: There were hardly any noteworthy family stories being told to me during my childhood. My mother, and brothers and I lived somewhat secluded from our larger family, and maybe that contributed to this happening.

Jacobsen: Have these stories helped provide a sense of an extended self or a sense of the family legacy?

Finch: While they couldn’t have because there were no stories, I do think that the lack of these sort of stories may have been conducive toward me developing a sense of self unconstrained by familial expectations, traditions, and historic accomplishments or lack thereof. It’s even possible that this lack of a sense of a family legacy may have caused me to adopt a somewhat heroic attitude, and be interested in being the one who began paving this legacy. I believe that my brothers adopted similar mindsets.

Jacobsen: What was the family background, e.g., geography, culture, language, and religion or lack thereof?

Finch: I was born and raised, largely, in Indianapolis, Indiana, in the United States. The culture where I resided could likely, by American standards, be described as low class. We faced pretty extreme financial hardships during the majority of my upbringing. We each spoke only english, for the most part. And my brothers and I were fairly involved, whether we wanted to be or not, in several Christian churches during our childhood.

Jacobsen: How was the experience with peers and schoolmates as a child and an adolescent?

Finch: I feel that I was always a social outcast growing up, and even am today, but to a lesser extent. This change is probably mostly due to my recent accomplishments, which may give me an added allure and appeal to some people.

As a child and adolescent, I think that my autistic traits may have been more prominent or noticeable, and that to my peers, this caused me to seem vaguely, but very unconventional and queer. While I might be both of these things, I think that these traits were moderately tolerated and accepted by my peers. Although growing up I was directly asked, several times, “why are you so weird?”

Jacobsen: What have been some professional certifications, qualifications, and trainings earned by you?

Finch: Most of the noteworthy training that I have that isn’t the result of autodidacticism, comes from my studies at Harvard, predominantly in the fields of creative writing, psychometrics, astrophysics, and evolutionary biology.

Jacobsen: What is the purpose of intelligence tests to you?

Finch: To provide a fairly accurate measure of the extent that psychometric g may be expressed in individuals.

Jacobsen: When was high intelligence discovered for you?

Finch: When I was about 16 years old, while trying to learn more about quantum mechanics, I stumbled across a Ted-Talk by Jacob Barnett, who was also from Indiana, about 14 years old at the time, and had recently been admitted to the Perimeter Institute of Theoretical Physics. During this talk, Jacob mentioned that he had been tested to have an IQ higher than what Einstein’s had been estimated to be. Following my natural curiosity, I began to look into intelligence testing after viewing this video. After some time, I stumbled across the website IQNAVI.net (now IQexams.net) and took a few of the tests on that site and received scores clustering around 143. In disbelief of my results, I got several people at my school to take those and other tests to see if their results were as consistent as mine, and if they aligned with what would be predicted for them by their class-ranks. After doing this for some time, I realized that these may not have been actions one would expect from a typical sixteen-year-old, and accepted that I may have above average intelligence.

Jacobsen: When you think of the ways in which the geniuses of the past have either been mocked, vilified, and condemned if not killed, or praised, flattered, platformed, and revered, what seems like the reason for the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses? Many alive today seem camera shy – many, not all.

Finch: My current belief is that most geniuses simply go unrecognized, and that neither of these results describe the most common outcome for people in this population. But as to why the outcomes of geniuses vary so radically: geniuses, by definition, are extraordinary and extreme people, and extreme actions tend to illicit extreme responses and outcomes. But to provide a more detailed reply: having the degree of unconventionality needed to produce work that is, among other things, so novel that you’re eventually labeled a genius for having made it, connotes a level of unusualness that, in most situations, is associated with failure. Moreover, the immediate reception of a genius seems to some degree be dependent on the status and clout that they may accumulate, mostly through non-creative means, throughout their life. For example, in today’s world, it is likely impossible to gain the credibility needed to be accepted as being able to revolutionize several fields or industries, without having first studied at somewhere like Harvard, Stanford, or Cambridge (potential geniuses relevant to this example might be Karl Friston and Elon Musk). Likewise, in historic times, the means to properly foster the talents of a potential genius was available only to the wealthy (potential geniuses relevant to this example might be Isaac Newton and Leonardo da Vinci). As for the potential camera shyness of geniuses, the unusualness associated with being able to repeatedly produce such novel and innovative work might, as a byproduct, cause a certain level of awkwardness which may get magnified or exacerbated during things like zoom or phone calls. Your questions in these articles also demand a level consideration that potential geniuses might find beyond the realms of a live and fluid conversation.

Jacobsen: Who seem like the greatest geniuses in history to you?

Finch: The greatest genius in history most likely lived in squalor and never received the recognition needed to be propelled to the forefront of my memory, at this moment. But for known geniuses, I might say Leonardo da Vinci.

Jacobsen: What differentiates a genius from a profoundly intelligent person?

Finch: A profoundly intelligent person merely has an extremely functional and efficient mind, while a genius has a highly efficient mind that is occasionally “dysfunctional” in ways that are conducive to the production of highly innovative work, when combined with an appropriate level of work ethic.

Jacobsen: Is profound intelligence necessary for genius?

Finch: Profound intelligence is likely almost incompatible with genius. In my view, genius requires a confluence of traits that don’t seem to be highly correlated with another, so the likelihood of profound intelligence coexisting with the other traits needed, each at similarly highly levels, seems improbable. For clarity, in my view, these other traits would be related to conscientiousness and psychological unusualness, and the rarity cutoff for profound intelligence would be about 1 in 20,000,000, or an IQ 180 (SD: 15).

Jacobsen: What have been ome work experiences and jobs held by you?

Finch: The majority of my work experience has been in entry level positions at warehouses. Although, given my recent accomplishments, I may now be able to secure more desirable jobs.

Jacobsen: Why pursue this particular job path?

Finch: I was to some degree forced into those jobs, as a result of apparently being too unusual to be likely to be hired to a job that required an interview.

Jacobsen: What are some of the more important aspects of the idea of the gifted and geniuses? Those myths that pervade the cultures of the world. What are those myths? What truths dispel them?

Finch: The most notable myth might be that simply having a very high IQ, or being profoundly gifted, is all that is required for genius. This notion neglects to consider that it is impossible to produce genius work if one is highly intelligent, but lazy, unmotivated, or unconscientious, and conformist (and in turn, unoriginal) by nature. So the truth that high intelligence is necessary but not sufficient for genius is what dispels this myth.

Jacobsen: Any thoughts on the God concept or gods idea and philosophy, theology, and religion?

Finch: I believe that my current position regarding how the law of non-contradiction relates to my model of creativity, and theory regarding the mechanics of emergence, mandates that I accept that there at least once existed something which can be reasonably described as a God. For example, according to my current understanding, a tautological universe requires a self-testing function, which implies self-awareness, and in turn, an, at least once, omnipresent entity whose existence allowed for reality as we know it, of which would be without a straightforward name if not referred to as a God. Note that this statement does not imply the existence of a God who for some reason disapproves of homosexuality and willing allowed the trillions of tragedies that have happened throughout history. For a more thorough, and likely accurate description of my position here, viewers should read my essay, Everything & Nothing, from After Genius, and my essay, On the Origin of Life, from my Applied Theory compilation.

Jacobsen: How much does science play into the worldview for you?

Finch: It plays an almost inconceivably important part in how I view the world. It seems impossible to me for a rational and critical thinker to not be employing some scientific practices and procedures just while thinking and judging the validity of different perspectives. And of course, quite a lot of research into the relevant scientific fields tends to happen on my part during the incubation stage of my creative process and workflow.

Jacobsen: What have been some of the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations) for you?

Finch: I received a 145 on the test that I compiled and developed, a 136 on the WAIS-IV (145 GAI and 119 PSI), a 137 on the Shipley 2, and a surprising 122 on the RAIT. These scores are each on a standard deviation of 15. I seem to consistently underperform on tests with strict time constraints, likely due to having processing speed abilities which are fairly poor, at least compared to my abilities relating to other facets of intelligence.

Jacobsen: What is the range of the scores for you? The scores earned on alternative intelligence tests tend to produce a wide smattering of data points rather than clusters, typically.

Finch: I’ve achieved scores as high as 156, and as low as 122 on supposedly valid intelligence tests. The difference in scores here might mostly be due to that different tests tend to place differing amounts of emphasis on different cognitive abilities, and that there may be a large variation in my sleep quality, nutrition quality, and mental stamina during different parts of the day, week and year. With and without excluding my highest and lowest scores, my average score is about 140.

Jacobsen: What ethical philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Finch: Maximize the agency of all living things.

Jacobsen: What social philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Finch: Maximize the agency of all living things. This prohibits lying.

Jacobsen: What economic philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Finch: I find this series of questions regarding sensible philosophies relating to different fields somewhat redundant. A philosophy is only as valuable as the positive change which it allows, and given that the dynamics and laws of the universe tend to remain constant, general principles about how to behave in this universe can be derived and applied in any context. Certain rules like minimize unnecessary harm, and maximize the agency of all living things remain applicable in all contexts and should be the foundation for all workable philosophies.

Jacobsen: What political philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Finch: See my previous answer.

Jacobsen: What metaphysics makes some sense to you, even the most workable sense to you?

Finch: In my essay, “Everything & Nothing,” from After Genius, I stated, “if things could not occur independently of absolutely nothingness, then the impossibility of absolute nothingness could not exist.” There, I argued that the existence of an ultimate reality was evidence of at least one non-externally determined event, an in turn, an instance of free will.

Jacobsen: What worldview-encompassing philosophical system makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Finch: In my essay, “Preconditions for Genius,” from After Genius, and in my essay, “On the Origin of Life,” from my Applied Theory compilation, I provide overviews of how my model of creativity could also function as a description of the mechanics of emergence, and be used to explain how a universe might progress from a somewhat description averse state to having molecules and respirating cells, to having solar systems and complex civilizations, with black holes, psychopaths and all.

In “Preconditions for Genius,” these facets were referred to as deviance, pattern recognition, and conscientiousness, and in “On the Origin of Life,” they were referred to as variation, heritability and differential advantage. This all encompassing framework and potential theory of everything has yet to be given a definitive name.

Jacobsen: What provides meaning in life for you?

Finch: Essentially, improving everything that I can touch, and bettering everything I know how to in whatever ways that I can.

Jacobsen: Is meaning externally derived, internally generated, both, or something else?

Finch: Both. Meaning, according to me, is a consequence of converting information into more functional information, and so requires at least one entity of multiple parts or facets.

Jacobsen: Do you believe in an afterlife? If so, why, and what form? If not, why not?

Finch: I believe that an afterlife may be possible through some form of cloning, or even through consciousness uploading, or perhaps others means, but do not believe in any form of afterlife that is currently reported as possible by any major religion.

Jacobsen: What do you make of the mystery and transience of life?

Finch: I don’t believe that life is as intrinsically mysterious as maybe some would like it to be. I might also add that it is not necessarily transient either, given that it is the longest thing anyone can live to experience. But in all seriousness, I think that, just like our strengths, many of our limitations can be embraced in ways that amplify the meaning we’re able to produce, as without obstacles or limitations there could be no struggles or accomplishments, and no weight to our decisions or actions. I think that It would be fairly boring to be a God. We should be grateful for all that is just beyond our reach, as they give us reasons to grow, and something to live for. 

Jacobsen: What is love to you? 

Finch: The result of a combination of attraction and appreciation. Note that this implies that love can be rational or irrational, and that unconditional love implies an intense appreciation and attraction to even the most despicable aspects of a person, place or thing.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Member, CIVIQ Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: January 15, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/finch-1; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

Appendix II: Citation Style Listing

American Medical Association (AMA): Jacobsen S. Conversation with Antjuan Finch on Life, Love, Work, Background, and Writings: Member, CIVIQ Society (1) [Online]. January 2021; 26(A). Available from: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/finch-1.

American Psychological Association (APA, 6th Edition, 2010): Jacobsen, S.D. (2021, January 15). Conversation with Antjuan Finch on Life, Love, Work, Background, and Writings: Member, CIVIQ Society (1). Retrieved from http://www.in-sightjournal.com/finch-1.

Brazilian National Standards (ABNT): JACOBSEN, S. Conversation with Antjuan Finch on Life, Love, Work, Background, and Writings: Member, CIVIQ Society (1). In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 26.A, January. 2021. <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/finch-1>.

Chicago/Turabian, Author-Date (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott. 2021. Conversation with Antjuan Finch on Life, Love, Work, Background, and Writings: Member, CIVIQ Society (1).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 26.A. http://www.in-sightjournal.com/finch-1.

Chicago/Turabian, Humanities (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott “Conversation with Antjuan Finch on Life, Love, Work, Background, and Writings: Member, CIVIQ Society (1).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 26.A (January 2021). http://www.in-sightjournal.com/finch-1.

Harvard: Jacobsen, S. 2021, ‘Conversation with Antjuan Finch on Life, Love, Work, Background, and Writings: Member, CIVIQ Society (1)’In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 26.A. Available from: <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/finch-1>.

Harvard, Australian: Jacobsen, S. 2021, ‘Conversation with Antjuan Finch on Life, Love, Work, Background, and Writings: Member, CIVIQ Society (1)’In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 26.A., http://www.in-sightjournal.com/finch-1.

Modern Language Association (MLA, 7th Edition, 2009): Scott D. Jacobsen. “Conversation with Antjuan Finch on Life, Love, Work, Background, and Writings: Member, CIVIQ Society (1).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 26.A (2021): January. 2021. Web. <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/finch-1>.

Vancouver/ICMJE: Jacobsen S. Conversation with Antjuan Finch on Life, Love, Work, Background, and Writings: Member, CIVIQ Society (1) [Internet]. (2021, January 26(A). Available from: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/finch-1.

License and Copyright

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.
Based on a work at www.in-sightjournal.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-2021. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen, and In-Sight Publishing and In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Ani Zonneveld on the American Immigrant Experience, Extreme Rhetoric, and Progressive Muslim Values: Founder and President, Muslims for Progressive Values

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interviewer: Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Numbering: Issue 26.A, Idea: Outliers & Outsiders (21)

Place of Publication: Langley, British Columbia, Canada

Title: In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Web Domain: http://www.in-sightjournal.com

Individual Publication Date: January 15, 2021

Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021

Name of Publisher: In-Sight Publishing

Frequency: Three Times Per Year

Words: 2,664

ISSN 2369-6885

Abstract

Ani Zonneveld is the President and Founder of Muslims for Progressive Values. She discusses: the American immigrant experience; story of finding some of the history of America in the midst of the development of personal history unfolds; extreme rhetoric and its consequences; progressive Muslim communities; organizations; and final thoughts.

Keywords: Ani Zonneveld, Islam, Muslim, Muslims for Progressive Values.

Conversation with Ani Zonneveld on the American Immigrant Experience, Extreme Rhetoric, and Progressive Muslim Values: Founder and President, Muslims for Progressive Values

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

*Interview conduced August 25, 2020.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: So, we talked a couple of years ago. This is 2018. We talked about some of your personal history, views, and work in activism within a particular tradition within Islam. Today, we are going to be talking more about a) the immigrant experience and b) historical perspectives and things that, at present, leading from that historical perspective that are helpful and not-so helpful in terms of discourse, in moving dialogue forward.

In terms of immigrant experience, in terms of a), what are some of the experiences coming to America later in life living in a wealthy society, granted with high income inequality, and a lot more freedoms for citizens compared to a lot of other countries?

Ani Zonneveld: One of things that really stood out for me. As a new immigrant at 18-years-old, I was really dumbfounded by the politicking that the political parties had when it came to trade issues. This is when I first came to the United States and NAFTA.

I was really surprised at what I thought they were giving away. Although, I didn’t know the issues deeply, etc. But as someone who came from a very politically active country, I was aware that in Malaysia there were protections from trade because, for instance, they are a small country and didn’t open the borders and allow for much more powerful companies to come into Malaysia and take over the firms and the industries, or open its market and get nothing in return.

I was surprised American economic and free trade is straight policies in that regard. But that’s too generous. That was my naïve immigrant take on it. When I landed in the United States, I landed in Illinois. I experienced some racist remarks and some things like that.

For me, I don’t take those things to heart because there are many more kind-hearted Midwesterners. You get your good and your bad batch of people. Although, you learn very quickly upon landing in America to sound as American as possible.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Zonneveld: [Laughing] Because when you had an accident, even though, I had more of a British than a Malay accent otherwise. You were looked on as dumb or dumber. Your accent doesn’t dictate how strong your grammar is or your written skills are.

In America, in order for you to be socially accepted, you needed to sound as American as possible. That’s fine. Some see this as assimilation. Some see it as terrible. I do not see it as that. I don’t see it like that because I lived and grew up in three different countries all of my life.

I’ve always been the minority, whether religious, race, or ethnicity. But I’m secure in my identity. So, for me, assimilating or becoming part of the culture that I’m living with and learning their culture and their religion and dressing like them; for me, it is not a problem. It is enriching.

I come from that perspective as an immigrant who is secure in my identity. When I look at America now and when I look at the conversations on cultural appropriation, and how wrong and right it is, that whole conversation around that sounds so crazy.

That we are having an issue with cultural appropriation. Where is that line on cultural appropriation? There are a lot of these discussions happening now. That I find them very problematic.

Jacobsen: When you came to America, the entire narrative so far describes a situation in which an individual is coming to a country, finding a need to adapt – needing an American accent, for instance, while not having a deeper understanding of some of the roots of these things, the longer term historical perspective of the nation.

Now, many, many people admire the foundational principles of the United States. At the same time, a lot of others will point out the contradictory lives of the people who made those same stipulations.

So, it is a weird admixture of admirable principles at the outset and missteps and hypocrisies in the lives and the subsequent setups in the United States of America at its founding.

In terms of its political activism, it more or less has been changing the history over time towards the ideals and away from the monstrous acts in its history. So, what is the story, for you, of finding out more of the history and seeing some in your own lifetime?

Zonneveld: Yes, it is hypocritical. In regards to coming to the realization of the shortcomings of America’s ideals vis-à-vis its reality as a result of my activism, I’ve lived in the United States since 1981. I have lived here for many decades.

For four years, I was in college. Then I was in the music business for 25 years. I wasn’t an activist. I was clueless of a lot of the social injustice within the American system. When I became an activist and human rights defender in a lot of the work that I do, it was work around African Americans and what we need to do here in the United States.

I would not have realized there were youth charged with crimes done under 18. I wouldn’t have known for international law. It is unconscionable to do that. As a country, it is reforming its judicial system, so children do not get any sentence without a chance for parole.

It is a chance to reform the system. In California, in the most liberal state in the United States, we had children in prison without any chance of parole. We were able to get that law passed at the state level in partnership with other faith organizations.

Another example was social security benefits for caregivers were exempted. When they passed social security some decade ago, the only way the Southern democrats would pass this law is if caregivers were exempted from receiving social security benefits.

This was because traditional caregivers were black slaves. So, when I found this out, I was stunned that this was such an issue in the United States, still. It is still an issue in many states in the United States.

This is another state-by-state case. We need this to happen on a state-by-state level. All this leaves me, as an immigrant, to learn about such things as redlinings, the black GIs not getting housing loans like the white GIs did. Even though, they were in the same army.

So many things that have deprived African Americans of equal opportunities, blatantly so. So, it is just such a heavy discussion to have; so, I think, unfortunately, the fact is there are so many deaths of unarmed black men and women, as well, by police.

We have had months of demonstrations for Black Lives Matter in the context of Los Angeles because trans black folks are being killed more so. So, that’s a more acute zoomed-in vision of not just your general black public, but also LGBT people.

So, this all popped up in the context of Covid-19 when we are all attentive to the media. There is a lot of attention on this issue and rightfully so. I am hoping that we will finally have the reforms needed.

Given that there’s such a mix of intergenerational and mixed races that have marched on the streets for Black Lives Matter, I am hoping the moment is now, even the election season, etc. I hope the moment is now. Also, I am very mindful.

I see a lot of incredibly divisive language on social media and media. A lot of people screaming at each other rather than people having a very strategic discussion, intellectual discussion, on how to change the structures.

If you are accusing someone of being a Nazi or accusing someone who is not black of being racist because you could, it does not bring people together. It does not bring in allies to renew this movement and to restructure America to the best that it can be.

That is my concern and that is my worry. I’m really happy when, at the funeral service of John Lewis, Reverend James Lawson who is an iconic African American, non-violent advocate. He veered off-topic from his speech and said, “I have to say this.” He was quite angry in his tone.

He said, basically, the dismissive language and the tone that you use will be unhelpful and history will judge you by that. I was really happy to have someone of that stature speak out. I am not African American.

It is not my place to say this. There’s a lot of anger and rightfully so. You know what is really interesting. The people calling for peaceful demonstrations are the victims of the families themselves.

These family members – my God. They’re just beautiful people. For them to be so incredibly gracious, I don’t know how they have the heart to be so gracious. Everyone else who has been destroying and fearing in the name of the lives that are dead.

They are really doing those lives injustice. That saddens me.

Jacobsen: How is this political context of bombastic, pompous and extreme rhetoric from the leadership influencing how ordinary Americans across political spectrums interact with one another? How is this further exacerbated by some of the chaos inherent in being, at present, at least, the number one nation in terms of the coronavirus pandemic and its impacts on individuals?

You have three major things happening. You have these massive protests, the largest in American history. An international pandemic with America as the major of it at present, as well as an overarching of actions, leadership, which aren’t helpful to any discourse to bring people in the United States together.

Zonneveld: There are two kinds of leaders. There are leaders who care about their country, their wellbeing, and using the power to bring people together. Then there are those who use that power for their own personal gain. Trump is obviously the latter.

He doesn’t give a crap about what happens to America. His whole rhetoric about Make America Great Again has only torn America from within. I am dumbfounded by the Americans who are still supporting him.

I am dumbfounded that they can’t see what a traitor he has been to American ideals. How he has brought the worst, how he has created division bigger than what it was, how he has peddled to our enemies and to the dictators, I am dumbfounded!

I don’t understand how people can’t see that. This requires a conversation with a psychologist, not with [Laughing] a lay activist such as myself. I don’t understand that mindset.

Jacobsen: What do you think progressive Muslim communities can bring to the table in bridging the divides created and advancing the universal vision of human rights and progressive values?

Zonneveld: As a progressive Muslim, I have to ensure that the readers are going to understand “progressive” in this regard is not a political progressive definition. It is a spiritual progressive. It is often mistaken for progressive politically.

That is not what it is intended to be. Now, by default, we stand for LGBTQ equality, human rights, women’s rights, anti-discrimination, etc. So, by default, we are political progressives by our values.

But you also see “fake progressive Muslims” who are using the progressive political language by politicians to earn their votes on the Left. The secular Left wanting to be inclusive, big tent, while not realizing that the use of these supposedly progressive Muslims is a way for them to utilize the process of democracy for their own political agenda.

I have a problem with some of those progressive Muslims who are running for office. They have this double-think. They are progressive on the public platform from which they are running on, but those are not the progressive values that they live day-to-day with their families and how they raise their children.

I think that’s the sort of problem; I have with the political climate. The politicking of the political language and narrative to advance yourself. Muslims for Progressive Values, what I think we can do as a non-profit, is advocate for the values that adhere to the values of equality and human rights for all.

I think on LGBTQ issues; it is constantly under assault in the Trump Administration. Our religious institutions receive federal funding and are allowed to discriminate against gay couples in the adoption of children, for example.

You’re not supposed to be able to discriminate as religious institutions if you are receiving federal funding. There are so many cases of this issue. As a progressive Muslim organization, we have collaborated with a lot of progressive faith-based organizations fighting back against a lot of this, e.g., what they have used is the Religious Freedom Reclamation Act to justify discrimination in the name of religion of others whoever the “other” is.

That’s what it was intended to be; it was intended to protect religious minorities, like Native Americans when the government was taking over their land for development. Land the Native Americans saw as their burial grounds.

That’s what it was intended to be used for, but now it is used by the Religious Right to support their religious agenda. I see the conservative Muslims are using the same modus operandi as the Christian Right to justify discrimination against LGBT people.

They try to use it to justify female genital mutilation in Detroit, two years ago, for example. So, yes, this is where we’re at! It is no longer a secular state. It is a theocracy. It has become a Christian theocracy, Christian Sharia Law.

I say, “Christian Sharia Law,” because: How is it any different than others who legislate and inform laws based on their understanding of the Quran? They are implementing it for the rest of America or the rest of the States.

So, it is unconstitutional.

Jacobsen: So, for those who are interested, either as secular people or as Muslims, what are some organizations that they can look into, become involved in, and support some of these more progressive values as defined before, or can research more to get a better understanding?

Zonneveld: Muslims for Progressive Values is the oldest progressive Muslim organization. We have been consistent in our messaging, in our advocacy, and in the positions that we take. There are some new organizations.

But they’re advocacy, political advocacy, types. I am not getting involved with them, actually. For one, because we are a non-profit, we are not a 501(c)4. We are a 501(c)3. So, because we are a non-profit, we cannot endorse political candidates, for example.

We tend to have discussions with politicians about positions and candidates. We have a forum and exchange ideas, “This is what we feel like. America should have marriage age for children at age 18 and older, not younger. Period. America should have a federal law against female genital mutilation and cutting. Because we don’t.”

That kind of advocacy, but we can’t endorse particular candidates. You would have to go to the progressive advocacy groups like MoveOn.org. or wherever on the political spectrum someone is.

Jacobsen: Any final thoughts?

Zonneveld: Also, there is this language put out on the side. It saddens me. Because there is so much divisive language, which can take away from restructuring the police, restructuring whatever the system is needing restructuring.

So, when you use the term, “Defund the police,” it is a kind of an intellectually lazy term. I have a problem with things like that. I would like to see really thought out things. There are a lot of African American scholars and thinkers who we do not hear in the media.

We see a lot of people in the media. It doesn’t get us anywhere as a country. That’s my overarching sentiment about the political climate in America, whether Black Lives Matter, Trumpism, the divisive language happening.

That’s my reflection on that.

Jacobsen: Thank you for your time, Ani, it’s a pleasure.

Zonneveld: You’re welcome, Scott.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] President and Founder, Muslims for Progressive Values; Founder, Alliance of Inclusive Muslims.

[2] Individual Publication Date: January 15, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/zonneveld-1; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

Appendix II: Citation Style Listing

American Medical Association (AMA): Jacobsen S. Conversation with Ani Zonneveld on the American Immigrant Experience, Extreme Rhetoric, and Progressive Muslim Values: Founder and President, Muslims for Progressive Values [Online]. January 2021; 26(A). Available from: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/zonneveld.

American Psychological Association (APA, 6th Edition, 2010): Jacobsen, S.D. (2021, January 15). Conversation with Ani Zonneveld on the American Immigrant Experience, Extreme Rhetoric, and Progressive Muslim Values: Founder and President, Muslims for Progressive Values. Retrieved from http://www.in-sightjournal.com/zonneveld.

Brazilian National Standards (ABNT): JACOBSEN, S. Conversation with Ani Zonneveld on the American Immigrant Experience, Extreme Rhetoric, and Progressive Muslim Values: Founder and President, Muslims for Progressive Values. In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 26.A, January. 2021. <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/zonneveld>.

Chicago/Turabian, Author-Date (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott. 2021. Conversation with Ani Zonneveld on the American Immigrant Experience, Extreme Rhetoric, and Progressive Muslim Values: Founder and President, Muslims for Progressive Values.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 26.A. http://www.in-sightjournal.com/zonneveld.

Chicago/Turabian, Humanities (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott ”Conversation with Ani Zonneveld on the American Immigrant Experience, Extreme Rhetoric, and Progressive Muslim Values: Founder and President, Muslims for Progressive Values.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 26.A (January 2021). http://www.in-sightjournal.com/zonneveld.

Harvard: Jacobsen, S. 2021, ‘Conversation with Ani Zonneveld on the American Immigrant Experience, Extreme Rhetoric, and Progressive Muslim Values: Founder and President, Muslims for Progressive Values’In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 26.A. Available from: <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/zonneveld>.

Harvard, Australian: Jacobsen, S. 2021, ‘Conversation with Ani Zonneveld on the American Immigrant Experience, Extreme Rhetoric, and Progressive Muslim Values: Founder and President, Muslims for Progressive Values’In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 26.A., http://www.in-sightjournal.com/zonneveld.

Modern Language Association (MLA, 7th Edition, 2009): Scott D. Jacobsen. “Conversation with Ani Zonneveld on the American Immigrant Experience, Extreme Rhetoric, and Progressive Muslim Values: Founder and President, Muslims for Progressive Values.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 26.A (2021): January. 2021. Web. <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/zonneveld>.

Vancouver/ICMJE: Jacobsen S. Conversation with Ani Zonneveld on the American Immigrant Experience, Extreme Rhetoric, and Progressive Muslim Values: Founder and President, Muslims for Progressive Values [Internet]. (2021, January 26(A). Available from: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/zonneveld.

License and Copyright

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.
Based on a work at www.in-sightjournal.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-2021. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen, and In-Sight Publishing and In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Michael Isom on Coming of Age, Geographic History, and Entrance Into the High-IQ World: Member, World Genius Directory (1)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interviewer: Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Numbering: Issue 26.A, Idea: Outliers & Outsiders (21)

Place of Publication: Langley, British Columbia, Canada

Title: In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Web Domain: http://www.in-sightjournal.com

Individual Publication Date: January 15, 2021

Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021

Name of Publisher: In-Sight Publishing

Frequency: Three Times Per Year

Words: 2,296

ISSN 2369-6885

Abstract

Michael Isom grew up in the birthplace of hip-hop, South Bronx New York, during its original emergence. Having also lived through its rise and urban renaissance of the mid-80s through the early 90s, Michael was able to experience many of the culture’s core lessons of true aboriginal history with respect to cultural identity, knowledge of self, responsibility through adherence to law, studiousness towards becoming the adept, and mastery of one’s being as thematic underpinnings of the rap music produced in that era. In later years after completing high school, he decided to pursue an undergraduate degree in Forensic Psychology and graduate education in Public Policy specializing in Management and Operations. Afterwards, he obtained an M.B.A. in Strategic Management in the wake of the dot-com era. In 2001, during the Super Bowl 35 Baltimore Ravens vs New York Giants intermission, Michael incidentally discovered what may have been the first online IQ test by the late Nathan Hasselbauer, founder of the New York High IQ Society, which soon after became the International High IQ Society. Having scored well past the 95th percentile requirement for entry, Michael was contacted years later by Victor Hingsberg of Canada, and was invited to take the test required to become a member of his newly established Canadian High IQ Society. After meeting its 98th percentile passing requirement and before moving on to TORR (99.86th percentile or 145 IQ requirement), Michael discovered what is undisputedly the most advanced cognitive assessment platform for IQ testing, in the world: IQExams.net. After a completing a battery of 40+ tests within a 1 1/2 year span of signing up, a clear picture of Michael’s scoring attributes emerged within the spatial, numerical, verbal, and mixed item logical areas, with a subsequent RIQ (Real IQ) calculation of 152. As his foray into the High Range Testing world continued, he happened to stumble upon a challenge issued by the ZEN High IQ Society: Two untimed IQ test submissions with a minimum IQ score of 156 (SD 15) are required for entry. And those submissions have to come from a pre-selected set of untimed high range tests. Since Michael already met half the requirements with his first attempt score on VAULT (163), he only needed one other test to qualify – hence Dr. Jason Betts’ test battery: Lux25, WIT, and Mathema are listed as accepted tests for Zen. Scoring 156 on Lux25 not only satisfied the entry requirement, but it also accompanied the rest of his scores on Betts’ test battery for a 151 TrueIQ. With the above experience, Michael decided to gain more exposure to other high range tests from other authors. After taking both the MACH and SPARK tests simultaneously (scoring 168 and 165 respectively on the first attempt), he proceeded towards a specific numerical test, GIFT Numerical III on which he scored 164. After also gaining entry into both the SATORI and TRIPlE4 High IQ Societies, he completed the untimed G.E.T. (Genius Entrance Test) mixed item test in minimal time. After receiving a final score of 162, he returned to IQExams.net and executed one of the most gifted performances on any tightly timed spatial IQ test he’s ever taken. His recent first attempt score of 160 on the incredibly challenging gFORCE IQ test exemplifies that cognitive fortitude can be taken to the brink, while spatial design and difficulty are taken to the next level. He discusses: coming of age story; geographic contexts; forensic psychology and strategic management, and trajectory into the high-IQ world.

Keywords: intelligence, IQ, IQ tests, Jason Betts, Michael Isom, Nathan Haselbauer, Victor Hingsberg, World Genius Directory.

Conversation with Michael Isom on Coming of Age, Geographic History, and Entrance Into the High-IQ World: Member, World Genius Directory (1)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: So, let’s start with some of the earlier narrative before we begin with some work and ideas, what was the coming of age story? Were you earlier finding out about some of these gifts? Or was this something happening a little later in life?

Michael Isom[1],[2]*: It is probably closer to the latter. However, I did see some instances that could have been the case long ago. It was a contextual situation in which I needed to be more in that type of environment.

My abilities could be better nurtured there. I think I found that, as I got myself together and, basically, improved my personal situation and rid myself of the so-called distractions at the time.

Jacobsen: For those that will be reading some of this, they can’t hear this. You have an American accent.

Isom: Yes.

Jacobsen: What were some of the geographic contexts for you, as well – cities, neighbourhoods? This sort of thing.

Isom: Thank you for asking, I would say that I have been in a paradoxical sense gifted with having grown up in the birthplace of Hip-hop, South Bronx, New York, during the Hip-Hop renaissance era of the 80s and even prior.

When the whole Hip-hop scene was being born, I got to see the history being formed – literally – right before my eyes. I got to see its evolution. In a sense, even though, in those times, during the Carter-Reagan Era, times were very economically challenging.

But culturally, even though, I took it for granted back then; I didn’t necessarily understand how valuable the experience would become today having grown up in that particular era. Even going forward from that particular time, I got to experience a re-emergence of a certain social fabric or chemistry in New York City during the late 90s.

We had the rise of the Internet. The Yankees were winning the World Series during that particular era. I saw a lot of fascinating events occur. I was – literally – right in the middle of it. I used to live two blocks from Yankee Stadium.

I went to school not too far from Shea Stadium, where the Mets play. It was the most unusual thing when I went to graduate school. In a sense, having grown up in that particular New York City Bronx enclave, I got to experience many cultures.

Queens is the most diverse county in the United States, with Manhattan not being too far behind. I got to experience a lot in a condensed geographic metropolitan area. With many nationalities and ethnicities, I got to speak to a lot of people about their perspectives of the world.

Now, I’ve come to the point where those experiences are very, very valuable. Because now, you see things from different points of view, which you may not have been privy to prior. After high school, I went to college and did a degree in forensic psychology with a minor in legal studies.

I did a first master’s degree in public policy administration specializing in operational management. Then I went and did an MBA at St. John’s University in Queens specializing in strategic management.

Jacobsen: Why did you choose forensic psychology? Why did you choose strategic management in particular?

Isom: Forensic psychology at the time was the most unique. It may still be the case. The school that I went to, John Jay College was the only institution offering that degree program. It was one of the most interesting fields to look into.

A lot of consulting agencies were attracted to the school for its intelligence programs, crime scene expertise, and so forth. Quite a few actors came out of the school as well as Pulitzer Prize winners. The field is a multi-disciplinary approach to understanding the intersection among criminal justice, legal studies, and psychology.

“I found it actually had quite a few unusual uses in the outside world. So part of strategic management has a subjective area in organizational behaviour and management where you’re interacting with different points of view in terms of how to develop, execute, and monitor the strategy, whether that be local, regional, or global, or – let’s say – “multi-level” at the same time. (It usually is.)

In many positions in life, you will find there are many psychological precepts that will separate the different layers and levels of organization from each other. I will give you a very simple example.

People who come in on a more technical position … they tend to focus on more specialized skill sets. What happens, as one moves up the organization to supervisory or managerial levels, is you find that there’s a greater – not focus but – steering towards an emotional aspect or an aspect of emotional maturity, where the person becomes more aware of the strategic impacts of decisions affecting other people.

Not just subordinates, but other entities in the organization, laterally and up-and-down as well. It is an unusual combination. I’ve met one or two people who have had a similar academic mix of degrees. I find that they’re very complementary.

It gives me some advantages, academically, over individuals who have more standard course routes. I tell people, as some might ask me for academic advice that “Back then, they wanted the degree. Now, they want the degree and the transcript.”

So, now, you’re seeing employers and other enterprises look further into the individual’s academic career tenure. A lot of my career was mostly in the startup technology space. So, what happened back in the late 90s, early 2000s, you had quite a few people looking for investor funding.

I used to draft business plans, assist teams in drafting business plan documentation, financial statements, and so forth, back in that time period when I was getting ready to go to business school. They would go for investor funding under Regulation D 506, which were basically done through private placements.

So, I did that full-time as a consulting agent with technology startups. I learned quite a bit along the way about how startups work and how they function, and what they mean within the American enterprise, even until now.

I did a lot of these engagements for quite a bit of time. I tried my hand at quite a few things. I did project management and virtual management in Chennai, India, while living in New York. A lot of my technology skill-sets were purely hands-on in terms of designing, coding, and so forth.

I have accrued a lot of experience over the years, in that sense. I will tell you a story. I remember back in 2001 going online. I found this challenge. It was a society called the New York City High IQ Society by the late Nathan Haselbauer. He had this challenge.

If you could score a 126 on this test, an online test, you could be a member of the society. That test is – or was back then, and even right now – at the level of some highly regarded high-range tests.

Get this, I think the test was 30 questions. I was not able to answer the last 5 or 6 because, back then, everything was dial-up. The image files that he had were so big and detailed, they couldn’t load properly on the screen. So I contacted him.

He responded quickly, “Here’s what I’m going to do. I’m going to score what you have already answered. It looks like you scored around a 132 or so, which would qualify you for Mensa, again, based on what you’ve answered.

There was the chance to score 140 if I had been able to answer the last 4 or 5 questions. Yet, even with the loading difficulties, whatever I was able to answer got through. As time got on, I began to see Mr. Nathan Haselbauer evolve the New York High IQ Society into the International High IQ Society because everyone began to contact him from around the world.

He thought, ‘The Internet has no boundaries. Why not make it an international thing?’ So, once he took care of that moving further along – this is long before he developed Torr. And a while after I did all that, a few years ago, I was contacted by Mr. Victor Hingsberg, who  himself founded a number of high-IQ societies.

He reached out to me and said, “You took a test a long time ago, and you’re a member of the International High IQ Society.” He had already established a different high-IQ society. So, I was invited to take another test.

I originally thought that it was developed by Richard Sheen, but it may have been by someone else. This particular test was a spatial test. I got in, so I started to move forward. I started to move into the high-range testing community. I think the big move that I made into that space was signing onto IQExams.net.

That has been my forte since. As of recent, I have been taking quite a few high-range IQ tests outside of IQExams.net to get experience with various test-takers. For example, I did the test battery for Dr. Jason Betts.

I, recently, scored 164 on GIFT Numerical III of Dr. Iakovos Koukas of Greece. I was able to increase my World Genius Directory listing with that score. Originally, my purpose for taking high-range IQ tests was not really for the score.

I was more curious as to what my innate skill-sets were in terms of what I was really good at, in terms of possible efficiencies. I wanted to look at my skill-sets at a granular level. The current problem connected to this has to do in part with the way academia is structured.

The opportunities for that are not as numerous or insightful. A lot of times, what can happen, someone can be schooled. They can be forced to accommodate a situation where there may be a fit, but it is not as efficient as it could be or should be.

They may have some other abilities that may go untapped. I feel IQ testing is very important in the sense where the most important concept is for a person to be able to learn about him or her self, so they will be able to exploit opportunities moving forward with respect to their strengths and actual skill-sets.

I think this makes things easier for quite a few people if they figure out what they’re good at early on and then move in that direction and get support rather than spend a lot of excess time trying to figure that out through inefficient means.

During the 2000s up until now, I started to see changes in that particular academic space, even in the IQ space, to which I started to come to the opinion that the high-range testing space will eventually expand at some point.

What will happen, it will be more decentralized in terms of how it expands relative to the previous concentration, which it, actually, had. For example, you had high-range testing emerging, I believe, around the early 1970s or so, with people like Kevin Langdon and Ron Hoeflin. I would have to place Paul Cooijmans in that particular area as well – as one of the major contributors to the high-range testing space.

I discovered that quite a few of the problems the high-range testing space has had in terms of its proper evolution started very early. So, for example, the education departments of two governmental entities possibly pursued certain restrictions on high-range testing administration. And I recently found out that it was primarily in response to what Kevin Langdon and Ron Hoeflin had put out.

This doesn’t come as a surprise to me. What is currently happening within the online space, Jordan Peterson actually exposed not too long ago. The high-range testing world has been able to capture the abstraction testing ability that the more formal proctored administrations have been able to keep a secure lock on for a long time.

Also, they’ve been able to replicate the scoring distributions accurately, which the proctored administrations have been maintaining through long-term accrual. For example, if you give people an IQ test, a distribution will evolve from that particular test.

That will be done by rank-order, which will appear as a bell curve. If you take the same sample of people, give them an IQ test, change the items, and keep the abstraction level requirement necessary to solve that item set, the same distribution curve results, even if 100% of the items are changed.

So, now, what you have is a situation where so many people worldwide have figured this out, that it creates a new type of a social situation, where people can, actually, figure out where other people sit on the bell curve based on these particular online and manually scored constructs in the high-range testing world.

In a sense, it’s a situation, in which its social engineering has always been purported to come from more institutionalized entities. The evolution of the HRT (High-Range Testing), in terms of its highly decentralized nature is coming from the participants themselves.

Where you have a group of people taking these tests for self-discovery and evaluation, many will do it for fun. Others will have several other reasons – to each his own. It can be highly personalized. However, from that particular group, you will find a few individuals willing to create their own tests.

They’ll create their own tests, norms, and do their statistical analyses. At the same time, they’ll receive feedback from the testees themselves. And the cycle goes on, in terms of the reinforcement of its evolution.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Member, World Genius Directory.

[2] Individual Publication Date: January 15, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/isom-1; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

Appendix II: Citation Style Listing

American Medical Association (AMA): Jacobsen S. Conversation with Michael Isom on Coming of Age, Geographic History, and Entrance Into the High-IQ World: Member, World Genius Directory (3) [Online]. January 2021; 26(A). Available from: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/isom-1.

American Psychological Association (APA, 6th Edition, 2010): Jacobsen, S.D. (2021, January 15). Conversation with Michael Isom on Coming of Age, Geographic History, and Entrance Into the High-IQ World: Member, World Genius Directory (3). Retrieved from http://www.in-sightjournal.com/isom-1.

Brazilian National Standards (ABNT): JACOBSEN, S. Conversation with Michael Isom on Coming of Age, Geographic History, and Entrance Into the High-IQ World: Member, World Genius Directory (3). In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 26.A, January. 2021. <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/isom-1>.

Chicago/Turabian, Author-Date (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott. 2021. Conversation with Michael Isom on Coming of Age, Geographic History, and Entrance Into the High-IQ World: Member, World Genius Directory (3).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 26.A. http://www.in-sightjournal.com/isom-1.

Chicago/Turabian, Humanities (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott ”Conversation with Michael Isom on Coming of Age, Geographic History, and Entrance Into the High-IQ World: Member, World Genius Directory (3).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 26.A (January 2021). http://www.in-sightjournal.com/isom-1.

Harvard: Jacobsen, S. 2021, ‘Conversation with Michael Isom on Coming of Age, Geographic History, and Entrance Into the High-IQ World: Member, World Genius Directory (3)’In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 26.A. Available from: <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/isom-1>.

Harvard, Australian: Jacobsen, S. 2021, ‘Conversation with Michael Isom on Coming of Age, Geographic History, and Entrance Into the High-IQ World: Member, World Genius Directory (3)’In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 26.A., http://www.in-sightjournal.com/isom-1.

Modern Language Association (MLA, 7th Edition, 2009): Scott D. Jacobsen. “Conversation with Michael Isom on Coming of Age, Geographic History, and Entrance Into the High-IQ World: Member, World Genius Directory (3).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 26.A (2021): January. 2021. Web. <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/isom-1>.

Vancouver/ICMJE: Jacobsen S. Conversation with Michael Isom on Coming of Age, Geographic History, and Entrance Into the High-IQ World: Member, World Genius Directory (3) [Internet]. (2021, January 26(A). Available from: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/isom-1.

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Conversation with Paul Cooijmans on Community Dynamics, Heterogeneous and Homogeneous Tests, and Qualification: Administrator, Glia Society (3)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interviewer: Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Numbering: Issue 26.A, Idea: Outliers & Outsiders (21)

Place of Publication: Langley, British Columbia, Canada

Title: In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Web Domain: http://www.in-sightjournal.com

Individual Publication Date: January 8, 2021

Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021

Name of Publisher: In-Sight Publishing

Frequency: Three Times Per Year

Words: 4,187

ISSN 2369-6885

Abstract

Paul Cooijmans is an Independent Psychometitor and Administrator of the Glia Society, and Administrator of the Giga Society. He discusses: the benefit of the “members-only web site and e-mail forum”; meetings; the birth years of the Glia Society membership; dynamics of the community; Gliaweb Riddled Intelligence Test; membership “in other societies… not accepted as proof of intelligence”; real issues with membership; retests not accepted; differences between heterogeneous and homogeneous tests; the requirement for a coinciding score with “one of the Verbal, Spatial, or Numerical tests”; Reason – Revision 2008 and the Daedalus Test;  “Spatial tests”; “Numerical tests”; “Verbal tests”; both unsupervised and supervised tests for membership in the Glia Society; the Ultra Test, the Mega Test, and the Titan Test, or the SAT, ACT, GRE, and Army GCT, score acceptance deadlines.

Keywords: community, Glia Society, heterogeneous, homogeneous, Paul Cooijmans, qualifications, tests.

Conversation with Paul Cooijmans on Community Dynamics, Heterogeneous and Homogeneous Tests, and Qualification: Administrator, Glia Society (3)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: To continue with the formal information as presented on the Glia Society website, let’s continue with the general information and the qualification information, what is the benefit of the “members-only web site and e-mail forum”? (Cooijmans, n.d.a)

Paul Cooijmans[1],[2]*: The members-only journal can be found on that web location, as well as information on how to join a few online fora or groups for members. On those fora, one may communicate with other members. I must say there has been a lot of activity over the past few years, but before that, there have also been periods with little to no activity.

Jacobsen:

Cooijmans: Good heavens, that is a profound question. For once, I am dumbstruck. I fear that the remainder of my life may not suffice to formulate its answer.

Jacobsen: What are the forms of the “meetings organized by small groups of members” happening “very occasionally”? (Cooijmans, n.d.a)

Cooijmans: There has been a small meeting at the society’s tenth anniversary in Brussels, where I held a lecture and played guitar, and we went to an eating place. I have also heard there has been a meeting in the United States, but I was not present so I can not say how that went. Then, I remember attending two other meetings in Belgium where Glia Society members were present, but those were not specifically Glia Society meetings. And on several occasions, members have visited me at home; one of those visits concerned two members at once.

Jacobsen: What explains the birth years of the Glia Society membership ranging from approximately the 1920s to the 2000s with the bulk between 1950 and 1990? Is there a more precise range for an unusual hunk of the membership?

Cooijmans: The explanation for this bizarre phenomenon is that people tend to be born in different years rather than all at once, hence the range of birth years. There is not so much an unusual hunk, but the mode of birth years is shifting upward and is now in the 1970s. Before very long, this will be the 1980s. Also, members remain on the member list as long as their membership has not formally ended, so there may be deceased people on the list, or people who have forgotten that they are members. Astoundingly few are so conscientious as to inform the Administrator, “Okay, I am dead now, you can take me off the list”.

It has occurred to me to deactivate the membership of people who have not been active for a number of years, but logistically, that is not as easy as it seems. When I experimented with this a few times in the past, the members in question tended to suddenly appear out of nothing and say, “Hey, why am I not on the member list any more?!” Somehow, they know. There must be underhand contact between members that you can not see as an Administrator, a “grapevine” so to speak.

Jacobsen: Reflecting on the membership demographics, and the growth rate variation of the membership noted in the first interview on the Glia Society (Jacobsen, 2020), did this change the internal conversation dynamics of the community of the Glia Society?

Cooijmans: Yes, in particular I have noted that the younger generation, say people in their late teens to late twenties, has become more active than in the past, and in a positive way. When I started joining I.Q. societies, the bulk of the active members were older, mostly over 30 and often middle-aged. I was 28 myself then and one of the youngest. I suspect this shift has to do with the circumstance that these people, born in the 1990s and later, have grown up with the Internet and with Internet-based communities. It is native to them, and they are also better informed regarding topics like I.Q. testing, intelligence, statistics, and psychology than older generations tended to be when first getting in contact with I.Q. societies. Although, as everyone knows, my enormous modesty forbids me to blow my own trumpet, it might just be that the free availability and hitherto unseen quality of the sublime information on my web locations is playing a role in the education of the best-informed generations ever that are emerging now and in the decades to come.

Jacobsen: For those with an interest in exploring the website, independently, on their own course of discovery about the Glia Society, they can view the links here:

General information on the Glia Society

Qualification information

Animated presentation

Mind games

Thoth, the Glia Society journal

Electronic mail forum rules

Frequently asked questions

Registration form

Text of lecture given at the society’s tenth anniversary in 2007

Constitution of the society

Contact the Administrator (Cooijmans, n.d.b)

For the qualifications of the Glia Society, there exist a substantial number of tests. To pre-empt questions in some prospective members’ minds, you answered some of the inevitable questions, even in precise terms. To quote you, “Required for membership is the 99.9th adult population centile on any of the accepted heterogeneous tests (that is, tests with a mixture of item types) or on each of two accepted homogeneous (one-sided) tests with different item types. Only first attempts are accepted, not retests (that is, one attempt per test is allowed). Only the tests listed are accepted. Membership in other societies is not accepted as proof of intelligence” (Cooijmans, n.d.c). For a peripheral, but important, side question, why is “the Gliaweb Riddled Intelligence Test (Revision 2011 or original version)” (Ibid.) no longer accepted? 

Cooijmans: That test has never been accepted, it has always been intended as an easy and less serious test, not a high-range test. You would have to score near the top of the test’s range to qualify, where tests are less accurate.

Jacobsen: Why is membership “in other societies… not accepted as proof of intelligence”? (Ibid.)

Cooijmans: Because many other societies are not strict in their admission policies and let in people who are far below the advertised level. I have explained that in earlier answers.

Jacobsen: Have real issues arisen where membership is shown, and assumed by the shower, as proof of intelligence, so as to make one qualify for membership? Any particular narrative examples of difficult personalities being highly aggressive about the matter? No need for names or a name, merely an illustration.

Cooijmans: I do not remember any such issues. My general impression is that people who try to join with proof of membership in other societies (despite the qualification page stating that this is not possible) are mostly not very intelligent. And the more memberships they show, the less intelligent they are. Speaking of unintelligent ways to “prove” intelligence, people have also tried to join with screen shots of automatically scored online tests that can be taken indefinitely and do not even display one’s name; and the most hilarious “proof” was an A.C.T. score report whereon all of the identifying information, including the name of the candidate (!) had been blacked out. A score report to bearer, so to speak.

Jacobsen: Also, from the previous question, why are retests not accepted? Famously, this happened with the Mega Society and the Mega Test with, at least, two individuals utilizing pseudonyms, or fake names, and then taking the test twice, so as to claim a higher score – so a purportedly higher intelligence score as measured by the Mega Test. While, with the practice of no retests, presumably real names only, individuals with a sincere and honest attempt and effort can acquire an accurate, i.e., real, assessment of their general intelligence, inasmuch as alternative tests compare to the mainstream intelligence test scores. Also, should real names and first attempts only become a pervasive admissions policy of high-I.Q. and higher-I.Q. societies? If so, why? If not, why not?

Cooijmans: I explain the objections against retests on my web location, but because this is so important, and so poorly understood by many incompetent dilettante test scorers, I will repeat it here in amended form:

(1) Retests are not comparable to first attempts but somewhat higher on average (that is why some candidates want them!) so accepting retests as the candidate’s true score (as incompetent dilettantes do) implies that the first score is not the true score, and therefore means to oblige all candidates to take the test twice in order to know their true score, and to require them to destroy their first score report (or not issue it at all). After all, the first score is sometimes higher than the retest, so if you let them keep it they will use it for admission, self-promotion and the like!

(2) Considering the retest score to be the true score implies that only the retest scores can be used for statistical purposes such as norming, and the first-attempt scores are useless statistically; it means to throw away the biggest part of the work one is doing, of the data one is gathering. In practice, of course, those who allow retests do use the first-attempt scores for statistical purposes, sometimes even in combination with the retests (and third attempts if not more) to arrive at a larger sample size, thus corrupting their statistics.

(3) In practice, candidates and test scorers involved in retests use the highest of the two scores, rather than the actual retest score (which should be used in all cases even when it is lower) and therefore add to the above mentioned two problems the inflation of scores caused by having “two chances”, as well as the levelling between candidates resulting from the same (inflation and levelling, when using the highest of two scores, are the necessary result of the imperfect test-retest correlation; and this correlation is imperfect or there would be no point in retesting to begin with). In case it is not at once apparent why using the highest of two scores causes inflation and levelling, one may imagine that “the highest of two” is on average higher than “always the retest”, because the retest score is sometimes lower than the first score. “Levelling” means reduction of variance.

(4) Candidates with a perfect or near-perfect score on first attempt are excluded from knowing their true score this way as there is no or too little room for their retest score to be higher than their first score.

(5) Through retests, candidates can verify the value (score) of particular answers or answer sets (more or less like in the game “Mastermind”) which endangers the secrecy of the test’s answers. From two scored submissions, very much more information can be derived than from one.

If a retest is allowed in some rare case for a special reason, the score report must mention it concerns a retest, to prevent it from being used for admission or for statistical purposes as if it were a first attempt. If the retest report does not mention it concerns a retest, this makes it impossible to distinguish it from a first attempt, and therefore reports from test scorers who fail to identify retests on their reports can never be trusted or accepted for admission purposes.

Regarding real names, of course members should only be admitted under real names, otherwise they can never be held to account for anything, and any test scores under false names have no validity. With false names accepted, people could try tests indefinitely to figure out the intended answers until they hit a qualifying score. And that is exactly what they do if you let them. I saw this happen in the early 2000s and was shocked by people’s dishonesty.

And first attempts should indeed be the only ones accepted for membership, I think the above reasons make that clear.

Jacobsen: Can you expand on the aforementioned differences between heterogeneous and homogeneous tests, please?

Cooijmans: Heterogeneous tests contain at least two different item types, when item types are classified on face value as verbal, numerical, spatial, or (sometimes) logical. Homogeneous tests contain only one item type. My experience says that the former yield a better indication of general intelligence and are less affected by fraud. Homogeneous tests are insufficient as tests of “g” and are also the preferred target of frauds and high-score chasers. To say that a test is an insufficient indicator of “g” means, in practice, that a candidate’s score on that test may deviate unacceptably much from one’s true level in general intelligence, either in the upward or in the downward direction. It is the upward error that attracts frauds and megalomaniacs.

For further clarification, it must be understood that an I.Q. test measures a general factor (= that part of its variance that is shared by all mental tests), one or more group factors (= the variance shared by some but not all tests), and specificity (= the variance that is unique to the test in question). Homogeneous tests catch in relatively too little of the first and too much of the last two, it seems. This has proven to be hard to understand for many, probably because of the abstract nature of concepts like “(part of the) variance”. For these reasons, I do not allow candidates to take homogeneous tests in their own right (only as part of a heterogeneous test) and do not express scores on homogeneous tests in I.Q.

Jacobsen: Some of the following questions may seem tedious. Please excuse if the next questions come across as such, however, a differentiation of reasoning, as well as a convergence, may help with seeing the administrative rationale behind these particular tests and abilities for admissions policies to the Glia Society, including the differentiation between unsupervised and supervised tests. The “Logic tests” section of the page states:

Required: A score corresponding to the 99.9th centile (unless otherwise indicated) on one of these AND one of the Verbal, Spatial, or Numerical tests.

  • Reason – Revision 2008 (subtest of Reason Behind Multiple-Choice – Revision 2008)
  • Daedalus Test (subtest of Psychometrically Activated Grids Acerbate Neuroticism and of Labyrinthine LIMIT) (Ibid.)

Why the requirement for a coinciding score with “one of the Verbal, Spatial, or Numerical tests”?

Cooijmans: Because homogeneous tests do not provide a sufficient indication of general intelligence in themselves, as explained in the previous answer. Only combined they do.

Jacobsen: Following from the previous section line of questioning, what makes Reason – Revision 2008 and the Daedalus Test reliable and valid metrics of the admissions policy to the Glia Society? (Ibid.)

Cooijmans: The fact that they possess enough reliability and validity to be accepted as homogeneous tests. But those two parameters are by no manner of means the only ones to be considered regarding admission; others include hardness, quality of norms, resolution, and robustness. These six parameters are also incorporated in an overall indicator of test quality. These parameters are computed from the test data using mathematical formulas.

To avoid appearing pedantic, arrogant, or like I am evading the question, the following clarification is kindly provided: Reliability and validity are technical terms from the science of psychometrics. In the event that the asker was not familiar with the technical use of these words and was merely intending to ask something like “Which concrete, tangible aspects of these tests make them possess the named properties (reliability and validity in this case)?” or even something as vague as “Which concrete, tangible aspects of these tests make them good admissions tests?” the following answer applies:

Reliability is the answer to the question “to what extent would this test give the same score if it were possible to take it repeatedly without a learning effect?” Reliability results positively from (1) test length and (2) item intercorrelations. Validity is the answer to the question “what does this test measure?” Validity results from the relation between the test and anything outside the test, including other tests but also real-world variables. The validity of a test can not be higher than its reliability, because a test can not correlate higher with any outside variable than it correlates with itself.

The two tests named in the question both happen to contain extremely original, novel tasks, and as such tap into the candidate’s raw mental abilities. Solving such tasks can probably not be learnt or improved to a great degree.

Jacobsen: The “Spatial tests” section of the page states:

Required: A score corresponding to the 99.9th centile (unless otherwise indicated) on one of these AND one of the Verbal, Numerical, or Logic tests.

  • Spatial section of The Marathon Test
  • Space, Time, and Hyperspace (Spatial section of “Test For Genius – Revision 2004/2016” and of “Long Test For Genius”)
  • LIMIT – Lieshout International Mesospheric Intelligence Test (subtest of Associative LIMIT)
  • Strict Logic Spatial Examination 48 (Wai) 17.5
  • Eureka Test (Lygeros)
  • Spatial Insight Test (no longer used but still accepted) (Ibid.)

What makes these tests, in particular, reliable and valid admissions tests to the Glia Society on the spatial intelligence indices?

Cooijmans: The first three paragraphs of the previous answer take effect here too. In addition, these tests appear to measure mental ability in the target range, so around the Glia Society’s pass level. This is determined by statistical analysis of the available data, and can also be monitored by observing the behaviour of persons with known scores on the tests.

Jacobsen: The “Numerical tests” section of the page states:

Required: A score corresponding to the 99.9th centile (unless otherwise indicated) on one of these AND one of the Verbal, Spatial, or Logic tests.

  • Numerical section of The Marathon Test
  • Numerical section of Test For Genius – Revision 2010 (Ibid.)

What makes these robust, or valid and reliable, admissions tests on numerical abilities to the Glia Society?

Cooijmans: The first three paragraphs of the answer before the previous answer apply here too. In addition, robustness is a statistic that shows to what extent the raw scores on a test rise or fall over time. It is based on the correlation of raw scores with a “time when taken” indicator, such that January 1995 is 1, and so on. Again, the suitability as admission test is determined through statistics, and also by observation of the behaviour of candidates and members.

Jacobsen: The “Verbal tests” section of the page states:

Required: A score corresponding to the 99.9th centile (unless otherwise indicated) on one of these AND on one of the Numerical, Spatial, or Logic tests.

Unsupervised

Verbal section of Test For Genius – Revision 2004 or 2016

Verbal section of The Marathon Test

Genius Association Test (subtest of Associative LIMIT Test)

Psychometric Qrosswords

The Final Test – Revision 2013 (subtest of The Hammer Of Test-Hungry and of Dicing with death)

The Test To End All Tests (subtest of Narcissus’ last stand)

The LAW – Letters and Words

Qoymans Multiple-Choice #5 (subtest of Reason Behind Multiple-Choice – Revision 2008)

De Roskam

Supervised

Miller Analogies Test (only from period before scaled scores were given; raw score) 94 (Ibid.)

What makes these tests, in particular, important indicators of verbal intelligence compared to others? Verbal intelligence correlates highly with general intelligence. Why?

Cooijmans: I would not use the term “verbal intelligence” but rather “verbal ability”. “Intelligence” is a term I reserve for the general factor in mental abilities. Also, it is not claimed that these tests are indicators of verbal ability; they contain verbal problems, but what a test measures can only be known through statistics, not on face value. The division of items into categories like verbal, numerical et cetera is a topographical, face value division. It is unrelated to what the items actually measure. So, a verbal test is not necessarily a test of verbal ability, a numerical test is not necessarily a test of numerical ability, and so on. This, too, is so abstract that few people understand it, hence the eternal confusion and the use of terms like “verbal intelligence”.

Again, statistics and observation help to know if a test is suitable. On the causal level, the quality of the items may have to do with the eventual functional quality of the test, or one would hope so at least.

Verbal ability (not “intelligence”) correlates highly with general intelligence, or technically speaking, in a hierarchical factor analysis of a variety of mental tests, the verbal factor is fairly close to “g”. Why? On one causal level, I interpret this as a reflection of selection pressures over the past centuries and millennia; there has been strong selection for verbal ability, probably since the advent of cities, which necessitated skills like writing and reckoning for purposes of administration. The hierarchy of mental ability factors is, as it were, a fossil record of (recent) evolution. Were it possible to study mental abilities of ice-age hunter-gatherers from thirty thousand years ago, one might find the spatial factor to be closer to “g” than possible verbal and numerical factors.

On another causal level, the correlation between verbal ability and general intelligence is caused by their both being dependent on the same underlying physical structure and its already mentioned properties (to remind, properties like the number of cortical neurons, neural conduction velocity, the quality of the insulation material around the axons, and the energy-efficiency of the brain). To correct a common misconception, the correlation between verbal ability and general intelligence is NOT caused by the fact that intelligence tests often contain verbal problems; verbal ability also correlates highly with a general factor extracted from non-verbal tests. The general factor expresses itself through a wide variety of item types (“indifference of the indicator”, Charles Spearman called this).

Jacobsen: Why incorporate both unsupervised and supervised tests for membership in the Glia Society here?

Cooijmans: Because any test known to be suitable is accepted, and that happens to include some supervised tests. The only criterion is known suitability for admission at this level.

Jacobsen: The “Tests with a mixture of item types” section of the page states:

Required: 99.9th centile (unless otherwise indicated).

Unsupervised

  • Assessment
  • Cooijmans Intelligence Test – any form or version
  • The Marathon Test
  • Test For Genius – Revision 2004, 2010, or 2016
  • Associative LIMIT
  • A Paranoiac’s Torture: Intelligence Test Using Diabolic Exactitude
  • Test of the Beheaded Man
  • Dicing with death
  • Problems In Gentle Slopes of the first degree
  • The Sargasso Test
  • Narcissus’ last stand
  • Cartoons of Shock
  • Problems In Gentle Slopes of the second degree
  • The Piper’s Test
  • Psychometrically Activated Grids Acerbate Neuroticism
  • The Nemesis Test
  • Combined Numerical and Spatial sections of The Marathon Test
  • Combined Numerical and Spatial sections of Test For Genius – Revision 2010 or 2016
  • Problems In Gentle Slopes of the third degree
  • De Laatste Test – Herziening 2019
  • De Golfstroomtest – Herziening 2019
  • Labyrinthine LIMIT
  • The Hammer Of Test-Hungry
  • Reason Behind Multiple-Choice – Revision 2008
  • Reflections In Peroxide (subtest of Narcissus’ last stand)
  • Laaglandse Aanlegtest – Herziening 2016
  • Bonsai Test – Revision 2016
  • <Cooijmans On-Line Test> – Two-barrelled version
  • Isis Test
  • Divine Psychometry (Scillitani)
  • The Alchemist Test (Husseini)
  • Magma Test (Vanhove) 17
  • Ultra Test (Hoeflin; taken before 2003)
  • Mega or Titan Test (Hoeflin; taken before 1998)
  • Sigma Test (Melão; taken before December 2003)
  • Test For Genius (old versions; no longer used but still accepted)
  • Test for extrasensory perception (Cooijmans) 2

Supervised

  • SAT (before April 1995) 1470
  • ACT (before October 1989) 33
  • GRE (before October 2002, verbal + quantitative) 1490
  • Army GCT (before 1976) 156 (Ibid.)

In the cases of the Ultra Test, the Mega Test, and the Titan Test, or the SAT, ACT, GRE, and Army GCT, why only accepting the scores if taken before those particular dates for the unsupervised and the supervised tests?

Cooijmans: For the first three, the answer leakage had apparently become such by those dates that they stopped being suitable. For the next three, things changed about those tests that made them no longer possess validity in the intended range. Another problem with these educational tests, as mentioned earlier, is that when people take them purposely (and sometimes repeatedly) to qualify, they stop being good indicators of “g”. They are not robust against deliberate attempts to score high, perhaps because they rely too much on learnt skills. For the last, something changed with the test or score reporting about that date that made it no longer possible to use it as an indicator of intelligence in this range.

Of course, much of this was before my time and in a faraway country, and I learnt of it through advice from persons in the United States and communication within I.Q. societies, and also by studying old statistical data related to those tests, sent to me by someone in the U.S.

References

Cooijmans, P. (n.d.c). Qualification: The Glia Society. Retrieved from http://gliasociety.org/qualification.html.

Cooijmans, P. (n.d.a). The Glia Society: General Information. Retrieved from http://gliasociety.org/general_information.html.

Cooijmans, P. (n.d.b). The Glia Society: The World-wide Hyperbrain. Retrieved from http://gliasociety.org/.

Jacobsen, S.D. (2020, September 1). Conversation with Paul Cooijmans on Introduction to the Glia Society: Administrator, Glia Society (1). Retrieved from http://www.in-sightjournal.com/cooijmans-1.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Administrator, Glia Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: January 8, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/cooijmans-3; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

Appendix II: Citation Style Listing

American Medical Association (AMA): Jacobsen S. Conversation with Paul Cooijmans on Community Dynamics, Heterogeneous and Homogeneous Tests, and Qualification: Administrator, Glia Society (3) [Online]. January 2021; 26(A). Available from: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/cooijmans-3.

American Psychological Association (APA, 6th Edition, 2010): Jacobsen, S.D. (2021, January 8). Conversation with Paul Cooijmans on Community Dynamics, Heterogeneous and Homogeneous Tests, and Qualification: Administrator, Glia Society (3). Retrieved from http://www.in-sightjournal.com/cooijmans-3.

Brazilian National Standards (ABNT): JACOBSEN, S. Conversation with Paul Cooijmans on Community Dynamics, Heterogeneous and Homogeneous Tests, and Qualification: Administrator, Glia Society (3). In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 26.A, January. 2021. <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/cooijmans-3>.

Chicago/Turabian, Author-Date (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott. 2021. Conversation with Paul Cooijmans on Community Dynamics, Heterogeneous and Homogeneous Tests, and Qualification: Administrator, Glia Society (3).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 26.A. http://www.in-sightjournal.com/cooijmans-3.

Chicago/Turabian, Humanities (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott ”Conversation with Paul Cooijmans on Community Dynamics, Heterogeneous and Homogeneous Tests, and Qualification: Administrator, Glia Society (3).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 26.A (January 2021). http://www.in-sightjournal.com/cooijmans-3.

Harvard: Jacobsen, S. 2021, ‘Conversation with Paul Cooijmans on Community Dynamics, Heterogeneous and Homogeneous Tests, and Qualification: Administrator, Glia Society (3)’In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 26.A. Available from: <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/cooijmans-3>.

Harvard, Australian: Jacobsen, S. 2021, ‘Conversation with Paul Cooijmans on Community Dynamics, Heterogeneous and Homogeneous Tests, and Qualification: Administrator, Glia Society (3)’In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 26.A., http://www.in-sightjournal.com/cooijmans-3.

Modern Language Association (MLA, 7th Edition, 2009): Scott D. Jacobsen. “Conversation with Paul Cooijmans on Community Dynamics, Heterogeneous and Homogeneous Tests, and Qualification: Administrator, Glia Society (3).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 26.A (2021): January. 2021. Web. <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/cooijmans-3>.

Vancouver/ICMJE: Jacobsen S. Conversation with Paul Cooijmans on Community Dynamics, Heterogeneous and Homogeneous Tests, and Qualification: Administrator, Glia Society (3) [Internet]. (2021, January 26(A). Available from: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/cooijmans-3.

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Conversation with M.Sc. Ing. Aníbal Sánchez Numa on Christianity, the Bible, the Gifted, the God of the Christians, Prayer, and Life Possibilities: Member, World Genius Directory (3)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interviewer: Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Numbering: Issue 26.A, Idea: Outliers & Outsiders (21)

Place of Publication: Langley, British Columbia, Canada

Title: In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Web Domain: http://www.in-sightjournal.com

Individual Publication Date: January 8, 2021

Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021

Name of Publisher: In-Sight Publishing

Frequency: Three Times Per Year

Words: 3,654

ISSN 2369-6885

Abstract

Born on February 27th, 1985 in Ciego de Ávila, Cuba, Aníbal Sánchez Numa graduated as Computer Engineer in 2012 and as Master in Computer Science in 2014. Having a PhD in Computational Mechanics since 2018, he belongs to the World Genius Directory and Catholiq High IQ Society. He discusses: the ways in which How man became a giant and The magic of numbers talk mathematics; Social Sciences under the Soviet Union; the areas of “some faith”; the hypocritical status of ‘most Christians’; the intellectual and emotional feeling of this ‘breaking free’; choir; Protestant Christian outings; the forms of being tied up as a Christian; other interests neglected as a result of being a Christian; the sense of respect in a community of peers; areas of study were more neglected in formal schooling; oscillation between achievement of near perfection and then collapse of self; geniuses; IQExams or IQNavi.net; the core of intelligence; the victories in the mathematical competitions; matters of life; the full realization as a gifted person; a necessary ingredient for genius; a pure Imaginarium; personalities or personal characteristics; kinds of “web and mobile applications”; advice for those who wish to get into the industry; a sense of the compulsive thinking in the gifted; rejection of all forms of religion; a blind faith, a faith, and, as William Lane Craig stipulates, a “reasonable faith”; rejecting the God of the Bible; an atheist with respect to the God of the Christians; the god of Pantheism; ‘If there is a God, then he’s a Devil’; the heritable status of intelligence; the agnostic position regarding the existence of a god; the prayers to experience; the form of healing induced via the prayer; the differences between men and women based on the evidence; the failures in the educational system; profoundly gifted individuals; and a range of great possibilities in life.

Keywords: Aníbal Sánchez Numa, atheist, Bible, Christianity, Christians, Devil, genius, God, prayer, Protestant Christians, World Genius Directory.

Conversation with M.Sc. Ing. Aníbal Sánchez Numa on Christianity, the Bible, the Gifted, the God of the Christians, Prayer, and Life Possibilities: Member, World Genius Directory (3)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: What were some of the ways in which How man became a giant and The magic of numbers talk mathematics?

M.Sc. Ing. Aníbal Sánchez Numa[1],[2]*: The first one is not about mathematics but about how the man developed himself since ancient times to be able to do all things he can do nowadays. The second one is about the history of Mathematics. It relates its history through fun and interesting anecdotes and it was very important in my love for Mathematics. It was through that book that I discovered Archimedes, Euclides, Pythagoras and similar characters of history.

Jacobsen: What were Social Sciences under the Soviet Union?

Numa: My father says that it studies the political basements of society, particularly of capitalism and socialism.

Jacobsen: What are the areas of “some faith” for your mother in spite of never attending church anymore?

Numa: She stills believes in God, and believes that God can respond to praying.

Jacobsen: Why the hypocritical status of ‘most Christians’ as an implication of “Christians talk a lot about what Jesus said what we should do, but almost none of them do”?

Numa: Being fair, to do everything Jesus said Christians should do is quite difficult, but I wouldn’t call myself a true Christian if I was constantly talking about what me as a Christian should do according to his teachings and I didn’t actually do it. It is to me like “do what I say to do, but not what I do”. It produced me a sense of falseness.

Jacobsen: What was the intellectual and emotional feeling of this ‘breaking free’? Those in certain strains would probably consider that moment as a capture by demonic forces for the Devil Himself.

Numa: Yes, they said that too, but the fact is I was very relieved. I felt that I had lost control of my life and needed to get it back.

Jacobsen: What songs did you sing in choir?

Numa: Christian songs. I had never heard of them, some of the singers I remember are Marcela Gándara and Jesús Adrián Romero.

Jacobsen: What kinds of Protestant Christian outings were part of the group of young people?

Numa: Nothing special, just walking through the city, having a pizza or ice-cream, things like that, just social encounters.

Jacobsen: What were the forms of being tied up as a Christian?

Numa: I felt a strong impulse to go to the church very often as in every day. And sometimes I didn’t really want to go and at the same time I did want to go. It was weird. I felt that I couldn’t resist the impulse to go, like an addiction.

Jacobsen: What were other interests neglected as a result of being a Christian at the time?

Numa: I didn’t listen to any other music than Christian, I didn’t study or read anything unrelated to Christianism. At the same time, I felt my goals in life had been put behind.

Jacobsen: What is the sense of respect in a community of peers? How is this hindered in times of adolescence with others not taking this principle as seriously as a certain young gifted adolescent male of the past?

Numa: I was more respected in general, but anyway I didn’t like the way my peers treated each other, not only me. It’s hard to tell why I was so different but I think that maybe it had to do with my parents’ education and home environment in general as well. Anyway, I think I also had some personality issues back then.

Jacobsen: What areas of study were more neglected in formal schooling for you? Why those? No one is a master of all.

Numa: I loved mostly sciences like Mathematics, Physics and Chemistry. In general, I didn’t like Literature, or art class. In Literature I got very good grades but I really didn’t like it, and I was really bad in art class (Musical Education, for instance). I remember that I didn’t like History either, even though I got good grades, but I limited myself to the content received in the classroom.

Jacobsen: Is this oscillation between achievement of near perfection and then collapse of self when not achieving it a common theme amongst the gifted?

Numa: In gifted forums I have read a lot of members claiming that perfectionism is a burden for them for the same reason. In general, a lot of gifted people have low self-esteem because of it, according to what I have read on those sites. Perfectionism can be so intense that if you are not quite sure you will do it great then you stop yourself from doing it. It’s also common to have a big fear of failure for this same reason.

Jacobsen: Could an exaggerated form of this be seen in geniuses? While, with geniuses, they, in fact, proceed to succeed in the proverbial ‘perfection’ without the associated twang back to a lower sense of self because of succeeding rather than failing.

Numa: I would say that it makes sense, yes.

Jacobsen: With IQExams or IQNavi.net, what were some of the interesting numerical tests there?

Numa: I really liked Numix, DeepSpeed and Numeriq32, which are timed tests and also found interesting Bakers Prime, which is untimed.

Jacobsen: What seems like the core of intelligence?

Numa: I have seen a lot of specialists in the subject saying nobody really knows. However, I would say that intelligence is made of some basic capacities like: memory, attention, focus and pattern recognition, and other more elaborated capacities like: problem solving and adaptation.

Jacobsen: Were the victories in the mathematical competitions helpful in the development of a sense of self and an acceptance of giftedness?

Numa: At the time that I participated in those contests the results were much more important for my family and my teachers than for myself. I loved the Math contests mainly for the challenge they represented but didn’t have a good picture of that meaning I was very smart because of it. Actually I thought back then that any person who loved Math could achieve the same, never thought I was gifted back then. However, when I began suspecting I was gifted I realized that maybe those contests were a good supporting clue.

Jacobsen: How were you “very clumsy in matters of life in general”?

Numa: I basically didn’t understand well social interactions and structure. I was very naïve also, and I would say that I had like some form of development delay like if I was much younger concerning all kind of skills normally adults and even children have.

Jacobsen: What was the feeling when you ‘stopped feeling weird’ with the full realization as a gifted person, in general, with a talent for mathematics, in particular?

Numa: It was one of the greatest feeling I have ever had. In gifted forums we see very often people arrive with the same doubts and I and other members try to tell them our experiences. The sensation is hard to describe, it begins with a suspicion, then you continue collecting more evidences and when you finally accept it, it’s very satisfying. It’s like now you understand your whole life so far, and it feels pretty much the same for nearly every gifted people who is identified in adulthood. Some years later I saw the movie “Gifted”, about a gifted girl and I was crying during several moments of the film.

Jacobsen: In the “very high intelligence” as a necessary ingredient for genius, how high, or how rare?

Numa: It’s difficult to tell. I think that maybe an IQ of 145 could be a good threshold as it’s the beginning of “high” giftedness. In general, 94% of all gifted people lie in the “moderated” zone, so I think that maybe having high giftedness could be a threshold. However, in high IQ societies and community it’s common to tell that the threshold for genius should be 160.

Jacobsen: Who are examples of people with profound intelligence while pursuing what they think is “how the Universe works” while, in fact, pursuing the infinite array of the magical, as if a pure Imaginarium of the unreal, i.e., a life and profound intelligence wasted?

Numa: Technically 1 of each 3.5 million people are profoundly gifted and so we could estimate that there are roughly 2000 of such people in the world right now. I have met as I know only 2 or 3 profoundly gifted people and they are very very brilliant but I am not aware that they are researching or doing anything especial. One of these people I have met has photographic memory, she can memorize entire books by looking at them and she is having two different degrees in college at the same time. I think that is the kind of intelligence that can in fact make great advancements if she had a great creativity (I don’t know if she has it) and enough opportunities.

Jacobsen: What personalities or personal characteristics feed into genius as well?

Numa: Strong motivation for reaching their goals, and a very strong will. There have been geniuses who put apart their social lives to focus only in their research in isolation. I guess they should have also a firm trust in their talent.

Jacobsen: What kinds of “web and mobile applications” do you develop?

Numa: Basically management systems, online shopping systems too. In the case of mobiles applications, I commonly make them as a complement for the web application, so it has the same functionality than the web version but for being used more easily.

Jacobsen: Any advice for those who wish to get into the industry?

Numa: Software development requires continuous study. I have met several people who want to become developers because it is a very well paid job, but the truth is that if you don’t feel a real attraction for it it’s unlikely that you succeed because you won’t have the will to keep studying and studying to be updated.

Jacobsen: Is there a sense of the compulsive thinking in the gifted?

Numa: It’s common knowledge that a high intelligence implies that your mind is never idle. I used to become exhausted of so much thinking some years ago. It’s common too to have problems to sleep because of it. Yes, I could say it’s compulsive, in the sense that many gifted people can’t really control it voluntarily.

Jacobsen: What of those who claim ‘rejection of all forms of religion as no belief whatsoever’ is, in and of itself, a “belief”?

Numa: Yes, I am aware of that, but I disagree. I see not having any belief more like a personality issue. I think that that claiming is more an attempt of those people to put atheists in the same position that they are. Some people think that a person claims to be atheist like saying that he/she is smarter than the rest, but that is not true. If you are a person who believes that facts and you don’t know any fact that could lead to have a belief, then you don’t have it.

Jacobsen: What differentiates a blind faith, a faith, and, as William Lane Craig stipulates, a “reasonable faith”?

Numa: Blind faith means that you show the person a contradiction in what he/she claims and he/she simply denies it, he/she chooses to believe no matter what you said to him/her. Reasonable faith seems to me that you could have some faith but you have reasonable doubts and you accept contradictions on it, so you try to not to be too fanatic.

Jacobsen: Why primarily rejecting the God of the Bible?

Numa: I think the God of the Bible is created with an anthropocentric view of the world. I mean, man believes he is the center of everything and so he creates a God that made him “to his image and similarity”. It is more like a personal God, and he puts in him his own sense of justice and morality.

Jacobsen: With the rejection of the God of the Bible, as in an atheist with respect to the God of the Christians, where does this place you in the historical moment of the ascendance of the Christian faith with over 2,000,000,000 people adhering to its faith tenets in various degrees and ways?

Numa: I am a factual person. I try to be as much objective as I can. I think that many people prefer to believe in something if that makes them happy, but it’s not my case. I think that most people are not interested in knowing if there is a God or not, they choose to believe simply to have faith in a better life. I seek the truth, even though it’s relative. But if I have some evidence of something I accept it no matter how hard it is or what it implies. At least I try to be like that. Of course we humans all have flaws and weaknesses and there must be some things I choose to believe no matter what too, but I would say they are not many.

Jacobsen: What makes the god of Pantheism reasonable to you? In turn, what forms of pantheism make sense to you? How would these differ from Pandeism and Panendeism, or Panentheism?

Numa: Of course I don’t have any evidence of that either. It just seems like a possibility to me, like there are other possibilities like parallels universes, or the fact that we could be just microorganisms in a world of giant beings. My thinking of Pantheism is like a point of view that everything is possible because our minds are very limited and the knowledge we have is always limited too. It could be said that it is a reasonable faith and an open door to the possibility that there is a God in some way.

Jacobsen: Why is the God of the Bible such a brutal, sadistic, and warmongery figure? As Noam Chomsky echoed Thomas Paine, he stated, ‘If there is a God, then he’s a Devil.’

Numa: I think it shows that Bible was written according to the time standards, which were that brutal. I think it’s in somehow an evidence that it was not inspired by any God but only for normal people of that time, in which barbarism was pretty common.

Jacobsen: With the heritable status of intelligence comes researchers, dead and alive, who make arguments for race and intelligence as a racial hierarchy based on a ranking of a “heritable” quality from high (intelligence) to low (intelligence) races, any more extensive thoughts on these arguments and individuals who make the arguments?

Numa: That interpretation is wrong in my opinion. The hierarchical part. No human characteristic should define a hierarchy among people. Skin color used to do that, which is obviously wrong. I think it’s part of the problem of intelligence being considered by society as some kind of superior characteristic. There are for instance differences in how some diseases affect to different races, but almost nobody cares about that and nobody would make a hierarchy based on that.

Jacobsen: Are these probabilities on the agnostic position regarding the existence of a god more qualitative or based on some metrics? If some variables comprising such a metric, even both parts of the question so as to make a variable-based qualitative metric, what are the variables to consider for you?

Numa: It’s more qualitative. But I would say that is more like an intuition. I base it on none scientific evidences found in favor of God existence and also in the way I think that humanity behaves. I think for instance, that is very convenient to have a very benevolent God who punish the bad people, and it is also very convenient to believe that your soul will remain alive once you are dead. It seems to me a human invention because of that, because it’s like a solution to the problems humanity can’t handle. Let’s say in 5000 years humanity manages to make it possible eternal life for every person, if that was the case the belief in God’s paradise would vanish eventually.

Jacobsen: What were the prayers to experience the “prayer-induced altered states of consciousness”?

Numa: It were some words being repeated and with a given tone of voice.

Jacobsen: What was the form of healing induced via the prayer?

Numa: Sometimes it was only putting his hand on your afflicted organ, sometimes it was a pray itself, they can heal a pain, for instance. There are some testimonies of people who claim that they had important diseases (like cancer) but I have only seen that on videos not in my presence.

Jacobsen: What seem like the differences between men and women based on the evidence?

Numa: I have read studies that find differences, for instance, in mechanical aptitude between men and women. I have also read studies about differences in IQ between both genders which conclude that there are more men on both extremes of the bell curve and more women on the mean.

Jacobsen: What can ameliorate the failures in the educational system?

Numa: About two weeks ago my mom presented a problem to me. She had a hair product with a 60% concentration and she wanted to know how much water she had to add to it to degrade it to 20%. Instantly I thought: A good example to tell people how math taught at school can be useful in daily life.

When I was in school I remember that I had at home the same textbooks from previous years and they had much more complex content than the ones I was receiving in school. Nowadays textbooks are likewise simpler than the ones I had back then. I don’t know the reason for this phenomena, but there is an obvious tendency to teach simpler content to students in school. We were never given a math problem with five possible solutions so that we marked the right one, in all problems we had to develop the full solution. Nowadays these multiple choice problems are in textbooks. I think it should be the opposite. With the Internet is quite easy to search any explanation online, so… why make things easier for the students? I even read a study that says that this generation is the first one with a lower IQ than their parents, and I think it makes sense. So I think that we need to increase the difficulty of the subjects and also to teach the students how all the science they are being taught is present in their lives. I saw an interview of the great mathematician Terence Tao in which he says that a lot of people hate Math because they think it’s useless for them and that that is a challenge for education. On the other hand, nobody likes something that he/she doesn’t understand so obviously we need also good teachers that can explain the subjects in an easy and fun way.

Jacobsen: Why do even profoundly gifted individuals expound, construct, or believe in, conspiracy theories?

Numa: It’s hard to tell. Some people have read and witnessed different things. I don’t believe in those because I don’t have the evidences for doing so, I am almost sure that I have them I would believe in them too. But in every discussion I see on the internet of such theories all I see is suspicion and distrust with no evidences, and very often it’s also a lack of scientifically knowledge of the people making the claiming. I see for instance a photograph of Earth taken from the International Space Station and such people see some flaws in the photograph and they say it’s false for some given reasons, but a person who actually knows about photography can realize that their claims make no sense.

Jacobsen: With “around 150” (S.D. 15), what does this set a cap on in life? What does this set as a range of great possibilities in life?

Numa: I have been told by many friends that I could have many achievements in life. This feeling is also common among gifted people. I think it’s part of the myths about giftedness and even a cause of so many people not accepting they are gifted. Intelligence is associated with success and success for many people can be for instance have a great job in which you earn a lot of money, it’s quite common. The expectations that people put in you depends also in how much they know about giftedness and how smart they think you are. I have friends who tell me that I could score over 170 or 180 and that I could make a great invention and things like that. I think that achievements require intelligence, yes, but also many other characteristics like motivation or social skills. On the other hand, psychologists declare four “levels” of giftedness: moderated, high, exceptional and profound. Many people don’t know that, they think that if you are gifted then you are among the smartest in the world automatically. So, putting high expectations on a gifted person is quite common, and I was not the exception. However, it’s quite clear to me at the moment that being gifted can indeed help me in my job and my career in general but it doesn’t necessarily mean I would have great achievements like some of my friends think. I am not actually a very perseverant person. I got used in school to get things fast and easily and it’s hard for me to make a great effort for learning or accomplishing something. All things that I have learned I have done it because it’s easier for me than the usual, some people tell me “if I had your intelligence” and I could reply “If I had your big perseverance”. This is also common among many gifted people according to what I have read.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Member, World Genius Directory.

[2] Individual Publication Date: January 8, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/sanchez-3; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

Appendix II: Citation Style Listing

American Medical Association (AMA): Jacobsen S. Conversation with M.Sc. Ing. Aníbal Sánchez Numa on Christianity, the Bible, the Gifted, the God of the Christians, Prayer, and Life Possibilities: Member, World Genius Directory (3) [Online]. January 2021; 26(A). Available from:  http://www.in-sightjournal.com/-1.

American Psychological Association (APA, 6th Edition, 2010): Jacobsen, S.D. (2021, January 8). Conversation with M.Sc. Ing. Aníbal Sánchez Numa on Christianity, the Bible, the Gifted, the God of the Christians, Prayer, and Life Possibilities: Member, World Genius Directory (3). Retrieved from http://www.in-sightjournal.com/sanchez-3.

Brazilian National Standards (ABNT): JACOBSEN, S. Conversation with M.Sc. Ing. Aníbal Sánchez Numa on Christianity, the Bible, the Gifted, the God of the Christians, Prayer, and Life Possibilities: Member, World Genius Directory (3). In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 26.A, January. 2021. <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/sanchez-3>.

Chicago/Turabian, Author-Date (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott. 2021. Conversation with M.Sc. Ing. Aníbal Sánchez Numa on Christianity, the Bible, the Gifted, the God of the Christians, Prayer, and Life Possibilities: Member, World Genius Directory (3).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 26.A. http://www.in-sightjournal.com/sanchez-3.

Chicago/Turabian, Humanities (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott “Conversation with M.Sc. Ing. Aníbal Sánchez Numa on Christianity, the Bible, the Gifted, the God of the Christians, Prayer, and Life Possibilities: Member, World Genius Directory (3).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 26.A (January 2021). http://www.in-sightjournal.com/sanchez-3.

Harvard: Jacobsen, S. 2021, ‘Conversation with M.Sc. Ing. Aníbal Sánchez Numa on Christianity, the Bible, the Gifted, the God of the Christians, Prayer, and Life Possibilities: Member, World Genius Directory (3)’In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 26.A. Available from: <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/sanchez-3>.

Harvard, Australian: Jacobsen, S. 2021, ‘Conversation with M.Sc. Ing. Aníbal Sánchez Numa on Christianity, the Bible, the Gifted, the God of the Christians, Prayer, and Life Possibilities: Member, World Genius Directory (3)’In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 26.A., http://www.in-sightjournal.com/sanchez-3.

Modern Language Association (MLA, 7th Edition, 2009): Scott D. Jacobsen. “Conversation with M.Sc. Ing. Aníbal Sánchez Numa on Christianity, the Bible, the Gifted, the God of the Christians, Prayer, and Life Possibilities: Member, World Genius Directory (3).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 26.A (2021): January. 2021. Web. <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/sanchez-3>.

Vancouver/ICMJE: Jacobsen S. Conversation with M.Sc. Ing. Aníbal Sánchez Numa on Christianity, the Bible, the Gifted, the God of the Christians, Prayer, and Life Possibilities: Member, World Genius Directory (3) [Internet]. (2021, January 26(A). Available from: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/sanchez-3.

License and Copyright

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.
Based on a work at www.in-sightjournal.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-2021. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen, and In-Sight Publishing and In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Luca Fiorani on World War II, Geniuses, Philosophies, Meaning, Life, and Love: First Member, RealIQ Society (1)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interviewer: Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Numbering: Issue 26.A, Idea: Outliers & Outsiders (21)

Place of Publication: Langley, British Columbia, Canada

Title: In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Web Domain: http://www.in-sightjournal.com

Individual Publication Date: January 8, 2021

Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021

Name of Publisher: In-Sight Publishing

Frequency: Three Times Per Year

Words: 1,612

ISSN 2369-6885

Abstract

Luca Fiorani is the first member of RealIQ Society by Ivan Ivec with an estimated IQ of 181.2 (σ15) combining 9 tests, where he studies and considers himself a philosopher in nuce.  He discusses: some of the prominent family stories being told over time; an extended self; the family background; experience with peers and schoolmates; some professional certifications; the purpose of intelligence tests; high intelligence; the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses; the greatest geniuses in history; a genius from a profoundly intelligent person; profound intelligence necessary for genius; some work experiences and jobs; job path; the gifted and geniuses; philosophy, theology, and religion; science; some of the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations); the range of the scores; ethical philosophy; social philosophy; economic philosophy; political philosophy; metaphysics; worldview-encompassing philosophical system; meaning in life; meaning; an afterlife; the mystery and transience of life; and love.

Keywords: genius, intelligence, IQ, life, love, Luca Fiorani, meaning, philosophy.

Conversation with Luca Fiorani on World War II, Geniuses, Philosophies, Meaning, Life, and Love: First Member, RealIQ Society (1)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: When you were growing up, what were some of the prominent family stories being told over time?

Luca Fiorani[1],[2]*: Back to the origins! I like this approach, it’s interesting. In the past, in its remotest aspects or areas, is perhaps hidden more truth than we usually believe. Family stories? My maternal grandfather was a key-figure. He was one of the Partigiani, The Italian resistance movement which fought against Fascism and Nazism during World War II. His stories were about: bravery, fortitude, daring. ‘Giving up is not an option’ – this maxim summarizes almost everything.

Jacobsen: Have these stories helped provide a sense of an extended self or a sense of the family legacy?

Fiorani: Yes, indeed. Cognition of our roots, in my perspective, fortifies our Self – our own perception of inner phenomena and the connection with a milieu; awareness invariably leads to significance.

Jacobsen: What was the family background, e.g., geography, culture, language, and religion or lack thereof?

Fiorani: My family lived and lives in Tuscany and Liguria. Its cultural level – firstly in terms of education – has always been medium-high, all things considered. My family traditionally embraces Catholicism, nevertheless not in a too rigid way.

Jacobsen: How was the experience with peers and schoolmates as a child and an adolescent?

Fiorani: I was a loner, as a child and as an adolescent. But I had social skills, and it wasn’t hard for me to make friends. But this happened sporadically. I had tendency for becoming estranged, I cut myself off reality often. I have never been grouchy, but simply I preferred my mind and its simulations to people.

Jacobsen: What have been some professional certifications, qualifications, and trainings earned by you?

Fiorani: I’m still studying. I’m still trying to get the proper credentials for achieving something non-negligible in my eventual professional life.

Jacobsen: What is the purpose of intelligence tests to you? 

Fiorani: Two goals: cognitive assessment and cognitive entertainment. Generally speaking, the first one is the most noble. For instance, a multi-componential analysis of cognitive abilities (as in WISC-IV and V for children, and WAIS-IV for adults) is surely relevant, from a diagnostic point of view as well. It’s not all about ‘IQ’ and a single number there, but also pointing out strengths and weaknesses of the individual. If you detect mental retardation or, conversely, giftedness you may proceed accordingly. The examples made are rather simplistic. I can’t expatiate too much withal.

The ‘cognitive assessment purpose’ can be pursued also through high range IQ tests, if their quality is acceptable. A single result won’t suffice. In order to get a reliable estimate of your IQ you need to take several tests. HRTs are usually untimed, but they can also be timed. The most common and broad fields of high range testing are: verbal, spatial, numerical and mixed/composite. In order to know your IQ, you’ll need a wide spectrum of data. If your aim is exactitude, you’ll need attention to details (stats of the test, norming method, etc.) as well.

It’s not uncommon, though, that one may try HRTs as a hobby or something similar. That’s the cognitive entertainment. You take them ‘for fun’, for the pleasure of solving challenging puzzles, the eureka moment of decoding a riddle, and so on. It’s not unusual that a competitive attitude takes place. If the competitive aspect is not pervasive is fine. If HRTs become an addiction and your mindset is too competitive, they should be avoided, since they lose their meaning and spirit, and the situation may become unhealthy. I speak according to my own experience.

Jacobsen: When was high intelligence discovered for you?

Fiorani: As perceived by other people, since I was a boy, 7 years old. A teacher of mine told me: “You already are a thinker. You think in a superior way. More deeply, more comprehensively. You just think in a different manner”.

As discovered by IQ tests and psychometric tools, in 2015. I was 23 years old.

Jacobsen: When you think of the ways in which the geniuses of the past have either been mocked, vilified, and condemned if not killed, or praised, flattered, platformed, and revered, what seems like the reason for the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses? Many alive today seem camera shy – many, not all.

Fiorani: I suppose that the historical and socio-cultural contexts are crucial here. Geniuses may incarnate multiple facets of human being, and typically exaggerated. You can idolize or reject; it’s our nature. Divinizing or demonizing what we can’t comprehend fully. The most entrenched vision of things is dualistic. View of existence can become Manichean, then. Not necessarily. Seldom we give away this Weltanschauung, though; it’s conscious but unconscious too, it’s a-rational and pre-rational mostly, then it’s rationalized.

Geniuses can go against a status quo, a paradigm, etc., so they might become a threat. Au contraire, sometimes they’re the inspiration needed for a revolution. Treatment of geniuses depends on the current predominant necessities, from epoch to epoch.

The ones alive today perhaps are mainly camera shy ’cause are against this liquid society… of surface, appearance, facade, emptiness, moral and conceptual non-substantiality… La société du spectacle, a society of exhibitionism, and then Homo vacuus.

Jacobsen: Who seem like the greatest geniuses in history to you?

Fiorani: The list is too long, to be honest with you. Plato, Dante Alighieri, Leonardo da Vinci, Gottfried Leibniz, Werner Heisenberg, Jacques Lacan, Kurt Gödel: these are good examples.

Jacobsen: What differentiates a genius from a profoundly intelligent person?

Fiorani: Briefly, the actualization of a potential. This actualization becomes an offer to mankind. A genius creates – originality, innovation, uniqueness: trademark of an actual genius. Geniuses are pioneers and precursors, and not epigones. Geniuses change how we view things.

Jacobsen: Is profound intelligence necessary for genius?

Fiorani: Almost always, yes.

Jacobsen: What have been some work experiences and jobs held by you?

Fiorani: None. (see above)

Jacobsen: Why pursue this particular job path?

Fiorani: I cannot reply for self-evident reasons.

Jacobsen: What are some of the more important aspects of the idea of the gifted and geniuses? Those myths that pervade the cultures of the world. What are those myths? What truths dispel them?

Fiorani: About high IQ individuals there are indeed myths to debunk. One of these, to me, is the idea of the high IQ person as cold, impassive, with scarce inclination for emotions overall. That’s simply a hoax. People tend to simplify things, categorizing a priori and labelling – it’s easier: less effort, less stress.

Jacobsen: Any thoughts on the God concept or gods idea and philosophy, theology, and religion?

Fiorani: Religion is one of the fundamental ways through which humanity expresses itself: the relevance of religions – as a trans-cultural and omnipresent phenomenon – is unquestionable: history, sociology and anthropology demonstrates the fact abundantly.

About God. I quote an apophthegm which condenses a lot: καλούμενός τε κἄκλητος θεὸς παρέσται [Greek]/vocatus atque non vocatus Deus aderit [Latin]… Which in English is: “Bidden or not bidden, God shall be present”.

Jacobsen: How much does science play into the worldview for you?

Fiorani: The role of science is essential and irrevocable. Science can be a perfect antidote to any absolutism and any relativism, simultaneously – both the instances lead to a dead-end street, from an epistemological and gnoseological perspective, but also from an existentialist point of view.

Jacobsen: What have been some of the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations) for you?

Fiorani: I scored > 170 σ15 on normed high range IQ tests designed by: Theodosis Prousalis, Xavier Jouve, Ron Hoeflin, Jonathan Wai, James Dorsey, Iakovos Koukas, Nick Soulios. And also others.

Jacobsen: What is the range of the scores for you? The scores earned on alternative intelligence tests tend to produce a wide smattering of data points rather than clusters, typically. 

Fiorani: I consistently score above 160 σ15 (if my effort is optimal); rare exceptions. I also have a couple of 180+ σ15. My strongest area is the verbal one but I can consider myself a versatile test-taker, having scored 165+ σ15 in all main fields of high range testing (verbal, numerical, spatial, mixed; untimed and also timed).

Jacobsen: What ethical philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Fiorani: Kantianism.

Jacobsen: What social philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Fiorani: Rousseauism.

Jacobsen: What economic philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Fiorani: Liberalism.

Jacobsen: What political philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Fiorani: notably cf. A Theory of Justice (John Rawls, 1971).

Jacobsen: What metaphysics makes some sense to you, even the most workable sense to you?

Fiorani: Spinozism. »Philosophieren ist Spinozieren«, as Hegel unerringly said.

Jacobsen: What worldview-encompassing philosophical system makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Fiorani: Nietzscheanism.

Jacobsen: What provides meaning in life for you?

Fiorani: Ich und Du relationship. To put it simply, intersubjectivity. The others. (anti-solipsistic view)

Jacobsen: Is meaning externally derived, internally generated, both, or something else?

Fiorani: Externally and internally derived, in synchrony.

Jacobsen: Do you believe in an afterlife? If so, why, and what form? If not, why not?

Fiorani: About this, ἐποχή (epoche), id est ‘suspension of judgment’, is my best answer.

Jacobsen: What do you make of the mystery and transience of life? 

Fiorani: Life always presents what Carl Gustav Jung called numinosum, ineffable sacred mystery.

Life’s impermanence enriches things, not the opposite. But we, by nature, are afraid of death and the end of things. The process of wisdom to think and sense otherwise is very slow, and arguably inexhaustible.

Jacobsen: What is love to you? 

Fiorani: The most marvellous sentiment that we have.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] First Member, RealIQ.

[2] Individual Publication Date: January 8, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/fiorani-1; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

Appendix II: Citation Style Listing

American Medical Association (AMA): Jacobsen S. Conversation with Luca Fiorani on World War II, Geniuses, Philosophies, Meaning, Life, and Love: First Member, RealIQ Society (1) [Online]. January 2021; 26(A). Available from:  http://www.in-sightjournal.com/fiorani-1.

American Psychological Association (APA, 6th Edition, 2010): Jacobsen, S.D. (2021, January 8). Conversation with Luca Fiorani on World War II, Geniuses, Philosophies, Meaning, Life, and Love: First Member, RealIQ Society (1). Retrieved from http://www.in-sightjournal.com/fiorani-1.

Brazilian National Standards (ABNT): JACOBSEN, S. Conversation with Luca Fiorani on World War II, Geniuses, Philosophies, Meaning, Life, and Love: First Member, RealIQ Society (1). In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 26.A, January. 2021. <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/fiorani-1>.

Chicago/Turabian, Author-Date (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott. 2021. Conversation with Luca Fiorani on World War II, Geniuses, Philosophies, Meaning, Life, and Love: First Member, RealIQ Society (1).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 26.A. http://www.in-sightjournal.com/fiorani-1.

Chicago/Turabian, Humanities (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott “Conversation with Luca Fiorani on World War II, Geniuses, Philosophies, Meaning, Life, and Love: First Member, RealIQ Society (1).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 26.A (January 2021). http://www.in-sightjournal.com/fiorani-1.

Harvard: Jacobsen, S. 2021, ‘Conversation with Luca Fiorani on World War II, Geniuses, Philosophies, Meaning, Life, and Love: First Member, RealIQ Society (1)’In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 26.A. Available from: <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/fiorani-1>.

Harvard, Australian: Jacobsen, S. 2021, ‘Conversation with Luca Fiorani on World War II, Geniuses, Philosophies, Meaning, Life, and Love: First Member, RealIQ Society (1)’In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 26.A., http://www.in-sightjournal.com/fiorani-1.

Modern Language Association (MLA, 7th Edition, 2009): Scott D. Jacobsen. “Conversation with Luca Fiorani on World War II, Geniuses, Philosophies, Meaning, Life, and Love: First Member, RealIQ Society (1).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 26.A (2021): January. 2021. Web. <http://www.in-sightjournal.com/fiorani-1>.

Vancouver/ICMJE: Jacobsen S. Conversation with Luca Fiorani on World War II, Geniuses, Philosophies, Meaning, Life, and Love: First Member, RealIQ Society (1) [Internet]. (2021, January 26(A). Available from: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/fiorani-1.

License and Copyright

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.
Based on a work at www.in-sightjournal.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-2021. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen, and In-Sight Publishing and In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

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